Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[ggr]

Just a guess but doesn't patents have a value in the annual report? Intellectual property or something? Like some GM patent for their engines is booked at $XX millions. So to give them away would result in a paper loss for them.

I would be very surprised if they are not considered having some value. For some companies (medicine comes to mind) most of their value can come from patents.

Tesla gave away their patents so early that they had little value at the time.

So there's a couple of misunderstandings here. First one is that Tesla did not "give away" their patents. They just promised that they would never litigate their patents against anyone unless it was in defense.
All Our Patent Are Belong To You

Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

Secondly, the patents are still valid, and still have a value that could appear on the balance sheet, but I think it would be up to the company and their auditors whether to recognize such an intangible. It would be in the same kind of category as business reputation or trade secrets. In the Q4'19 presentation they said that "Goodwill and intangible assets" was worth 537M$. Some of that would be their patents, I think.

Thirdly, while the patents still have value, they don't represent income. So they don't affect profit or loss or cashflow. Of course if Tesla licensed them out, there would be separate entries for licensing revenue, but they don't.

 

[LJS22]

This is amazing. The total short interest $ (the more important metric vs. short interest # of shares) is pretty much back to its ATH from early February. The shorts had an amazingly lucky opportunity due to C19 to get out as the SP touched as low as $350, but instead did what they have always done - increase short interest when the SP was lower. And here they are trapped again!

They buy cheap short shares then we force them to buy even more expensive ones later on! They just want to donate to the mission

 

[StealthP3D]

Guess I'll just have to save up for my first option

My most profitable options were so cheap I was stuffing my pockets full of them like a kid in a candy store! Less than $100/contract.

 

[ggr]

I think people need to chill. The guy was just trying to be helpful but man the ban hammer comes down quick here. I should know since I get banned every other week..lol. It's still interesting to see how people on this forum thinks a headline can influence members here to move the stock price with a volume of 20 million.

What "ban hammer"?

 

[woodisgood]

If this is true as the article states, Adam Jonas is insulting everyone's intelligence and he should just admit he's completely clueless about TSLA going forward. A $500 to $1,000 range? Seriously?

Tesla (TSLA): Morgan Stanley earns its millions putting TSLA stock between $500-$1000 - Electrek

AJ is basically a celebrity in the Teslaverse. If you asked me who I’d want to grab a beer with, obviously Elon, Andrej, Franz. But after that? A frickin J. Who else could I share my excitement about the MACH-E with?

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

So there's a couple of misunderstandings here. First one is that Tesla did not "give away" their patents. They just promised that they would never litigate their patents against anyone unless it was in defense.
All Our Patent Are Belong To You


Secondly, the patents are still valid, and still have a value that could appear on the balance sheet, but I think it would be up to the company and their auditors whether to recognize such an intangible. It would be in the same kind of category as business reputation or trade secrets. In the Q4'19 presentation they said that "Goodwill and intangible assets" was worth 537M$. Some of that would be their patents, I think.

Thirdly, while the patents still have value, they don't represent income. So they don't affect profit or loss or cashflow. Of course if Tesla licensed them out, there would be separate entries for licensing revenue, but they don't.

Ok, makes sense.

But if you let others use your patents for free the value of that patent should be lower than if you don't? In most cases at least.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

It's still interesting to see how people on this forum thinks a headline can influence members here to move the stock price with a volume of 20 million.

Who has said that?

 

[StealthP3D]

We know many start ups are using their patents considering they have no patents of their own to share per agreement. Elon even said this on an interview. I am talking about legacy autos who doesn't want to share their "valuable secrets" to Tesla in exchange for patents.

There are no secrets in a patent. They are public information.

I think you are making a mistake by assuming that other manufacturers could match Tesla's EV's (or come close to them in important metrics) if only they used their patents. I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that.

And if another manufacturer wants to use Tesla's patented ideas, the ones that Tesla has said are free for the taking as long as the user doesn't assert their patents against Tesla, they would likely just use them without any notice whatsoever. And Tesla would likely not take any action. If Tesla did take issue, they would hammer out a legal cross-licensing agreement, something that neither of them wants to do unless it will offer tangible benefits (because this costs time and money and distracts from their core mission with nothing to show for it).

 

[Prunesquallor]

So who were the big buyers this morning? Is there a new whale in the pool?

 

[StealthP3D]

• Great companies create the sport of ice hockey (Tesla, old Apple)
• Good companies skate to where the puck will be (old Google)
• Average companies skate to the puck (Microsoft)
• Poor companies skate to the puck last time they looked for it (VW - see Electrek article) Hello? - Robotaxi....
• Terrible companies chew on the puck (GM)

Funny post but I think you have some misconceptions about MSFT.

5-year returns:

AAPL: 113.06%
TSLA: 243.06%
MSFT: 263.40%

 

[StealthP3D]

The shorts had an amazingly lucky opportunity due to C19 to get out as the SP touched as low as $350, but instead did what they have always done - increase short interest when the SP was lower. And here they are trapped again!

Once again, I have under-estimated the stupidity of the shorts!

I wonder why that is?

Spoiler

Because they really are that stupid!

 

[wipster]

Well, maybe not! Here's hoping!

So did that include AH?

 

[LJS22]

So who were the big buyers this morning? Is there a new whale in the pool?

No telling, but it’s likely investors noticed that the expectations for Tesla in Q1 is a big loss and yet people who crunch the numbers see a significant chance Tesla will knock it out of the park in comparison. So they are likely placing a bet on a big beat and will gladly ride that 15% vertical when the report hits.

 

[StealthP3D]

Ok, makes sense.

But if you let others use your patents for free the value of that patent should be lower than if you don't? In most cases at least.

I don't think cross-licensing changes the value of the patents at all. The assumption is you are getting something of roughly equal value in return.

 

[Nocturnal]

Once again, I have under-estimated the stupidity of the shorts!

I wonder why that is?

Spoiler

Because they really are that stupid!

I have to imagine that most were too dumb/greedy to cover after that big dip because they are so sure it's going to zero. If I were them I'd be terrified right now. Any legacy auto plans to move forward into EVs heavily are certainly out the window for now.

 

[canoemore]

Boy. This is a real hat-biter towards the end.

 

[wipster]

Boy. This is a real hat-biter towards the end.

And hat eater after!

 

[HG Wells]

If she does not close over 800 today....I will eat a replica of @Artful Dodger hat.

Well, almost. May I recommend.

 

[Mo City]

Today was a great day for the stock. Not complaining at all, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans because everything rides on Wednesday's ER and outlook. We all remember the negative run up to April 2nd what happened when the production and delivery numbers were released.

 

[Unpilot]

Damn it

!