Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Cherry Wine]

I kind of like the idea of taxing tires. Tire wear corresponds directly to road wear, when you take into account the type of tires (e.g. studded vs. non, what sort of loads they're designed to bear, etc). The only issue is that due to how expensive tires would get, it'd be a significant counterincentive to people replacing them at proper intervals; you'd have to significantly tighten enforcement on that.

It seems like a combination of vehicle mileage and weight are the most fair method. Tire taxation has other flaws outside of creating a disincentive to proper maintenance, such as better-handling tires wearing out disproportionately to miles driven, etc. (ulta high performance tires are notorious for this characteristic)

 

[Unpilot]

I’m curious: would it even work particularly well? You’d want the entire pane to shatter. I’d imagine a bullet could just put a fairly neat small hole in the glass.

Called a couple retired Cops I know...they could not imagine a scenario were they would fire a gun into a car during a rescue event.

Edit: even during a burning car situation.

 

[KarenRei]

such as better-handling tires wearing out disproportionately to miles driven, etc. (ulta high performance tires are notorious for this characteristic)

Expected tire longevity can (and should be) a parameter in the tire's tax rate. It's just a simple issue of "expected road wear for the tire over the course of its lifespan, at its design loads".

The issue is just, how do you make sure that people replace their tires at proper intervals? It's already a problem, and if tires become significantly more expensive, it'll become a bigger problem. But in terms of accurately representing who's causing wear to roads, it really does encapsulate the situation well.

Vehicle mileage works, but it's long been subject of manipulation, and some people hate it because they see it as intrusive. But I do support that possibility.

 

[Joshker]

But seriously, all police officers and EMTs should carry...

Obviously OT, but where are you going to keep this device and where do you think it will end up after a head on collision at any speed especially one hard enough entree the electric system is compromised?

 

[AndreN]

I’m curious: would it even work particularly well? You’d want the entire pane to shatter. I’d imagine a bullet could just put a fairly neat small hole in the glass.

Side windows in cars are tempered glass. Tempered glass is under self-tension, making it stronger than regular glass, until you actually apply enough force to break it. Breaking any part of a pane of tempered glass causes the entire pane to shatter almost instantly into hundreds of small pieces.

 

[Unpilot]

Man it would be nice to see a strong finish...instead of a slow fade like we are currently having.

 

[KarenRei]

Over a third of the Model 3 VINs Tesla has ever registered were registered this quarter:

Model 3 VINs

102.321 VINs

 

[shootformoon]

In my retirement I drive little more than 2000 miles per year. I would not want to be taxed as much as those who drive much more. If that were done, it would be a disincentive for low mileage drivers to buy an electric car. If mileage is recorded by a car's internal computer, with over-the-air accessibility by the manufacturer, I can see a government mandating that that information be shared with them. Then we could be taxed based on actual mileage. It's no more an invasion of privacy than our stock brokerage being required to send information about our trading to the IRS.

Most of the real damages on roads are caused by heavy trucks, especially semis. If we are talking about fairness, their fair share of the road maintenance fund should be increased substantially.

 

[MP3Mike]

Vehicle mileage works, but it's long been subject of manipulation, and some people hate it because they see it as intrusive. But I do support that possibility.

It is also a problem since most of the taxes are per state if not by city. So point of use/re-fuel works better. This same problem exists for tire based taxes. You could argue that it will all just work out in the end, but it really won't in some cases. (Like when people in southern Washington come over to Oregon to buy things, including tires, sales tax free.)

Most of my mileage is split almost 50/50 between two states. Oregon has been testing a mileage based road tax that used a GPS device to only bill for miles driven in Oregon. Of course people don't want the state tracking their car via GPS.

 

[AudubonB]

That is _not_ a good alternative. Cost of a charging session does not correlate with road use.
It also creates a perverse incentive for politicians to like inefficiency and expensive charging.

You’re exactly correct; the only real positive I see about his proposal is that it would incentivize use of home vs public charge stations...and even that is a terrible unfairness for those who haven’t a garage, etc.
An absolutely fair system - present on TMC for at least since early 2013 - is to mandate EVs also to visit State Inspection Stations once each year; if not for brake/lightbulb/etc. safety, then just for an odometer reading; tax to be applied on whatever per-mile rate the state determines. THIS ALSO SHOULD BE HOW ICEs ARE ASSESSED. The edge case of “I drive more in neighboring state than home state” should be disregarded, as it is now for those who fuel up more in a non-home state.

 

[humbaba]

Like, say, a person burning to death in a crashed car? The situation we're talking about here? The officer said that he got up to the car (several minutes after the accident), tried to break the window but couldn't, then had to back off because of the flames.

I am not in law enforcement, but despite perceptions about police being trigger happy in the US they do not wantonly discharge their firearms. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that discharging a firearm requires justification. My point is that it isn't their "go to" and probably shouldn't be.

But even if they do not have a specialized hammer handy I'm puzzled at an inability to break a window. As already noted, any sharp force is going to simply shatter the entire pane of glass. It really isn't that hard to do.

 

[InDaClub]

Even if they can't physically break the glass with the barrel, can't they... you know, shoot it out?

OT:

"Oppsie, sorry, with your tinted glass I didn't see your family member / dog / parrot / chicken in the back." Um, I'm going to go with the $2.99 glass hammer every time.

 

[EVNow]

Most of the real damages on roads are caused by heavy trucks, especially semis. If we are talking about fairness, their fair share of the road maintenance fund should be increased substantially.

And rain. So, lets charge the weather system.

Road maintenance, like police or schools, needs to come out of general budget. Its one of the most basic functions of any state.

 

[humbaba]

OT:

"Oppsie, sorry, with your tinted glass I didn't see your family member / dog / parrot / chicken in the back." Um, I'm going to go with the $2.99 glass hammer every time.

Or rock, tire iron, whatever. It really isn't that hard to do. (Not that I would know.)

 

[TradingInvest]

Most of the real damages on roads are caused by heavy trucks, especially semis. If we are talking about fairness, their fair share of the road maintenance fund should be increased substantially.

Road damage is roughly in proportion to the square of the vehicle weight. A 80,000 lbs semi creates 400 times of damage compared with my Model 3. On top of that, each year a Semi drives 10 times my millage. I think a typical Semi creates 2000~4000 times road damage compared to my car. There are a lot of researches in this area.

 

[Foghat]

Perfect example of Elon next level marketing:

At the end of the ARK interview, he’s praised for “making the world a better place.”

Elon self deprecates, saying that’s like what they all say they do (laughs) have you seen the show Silicon Valley? Interviewer says no... and Elon explains the show...


What he just did is direct audience to watch the show. On the show, Tesla is a major subject of many episodes of one of the seasons. Also, they talk about Elon himself throughout the series as well.

Now if people watch the series, they will learn about Model S... and see the Model S ... in a funny context.

Guerrilla marketing that cost Elon nothing but hits the target audience that listened to the ARK podcast.

This is how you do it in the 21st century. It’s why legacy auto companies can’t understand why Tesla sells more model 3s in California in the last half of 2018 then Honda’s model, even with their cash burning big box media marketing campaigns.

 

[jerry33]

Side windows in cars are tempered glass. Tempered glass is under self-tension, making it stronger than regular glass, until you actually apply enough force to break it. Breaking any part of a pane of tempered glass causes the entire pane to shatter almost instantly into hundreds of small pieces.

Happened to me once in a rental car. A truck going the opposite way shot a rock in the driver's window and it shattered.

 

[KarenRei]

OT:

"Oppsie, sorry, with your tinted glass I didn't see your family member / dog / parrot / chicken in the back." Um, I'm going to go with the $2.99 glass hammer every time.

The $2,99 glass hammer that police don't carry around, in the same way that they don't walk around carrying a climbing harness, oxygen tank, atropine injector, or any of countless thousand other things that "would be useful in specific circumstances, but which beat cops don't actually carry".

What they do have - AFAIK all of them in the US, including the one who "couldn't break the window" and so backed away from the car while flames spread through it and incinerated the driver - is a gun. There's no excuse for a police officer to let a person die because they couldn't break a window, when at their waist they have a device that can break any non-armoured window you'll ever find.

If the officer had both a glass hammer and a gun, of course they should choose the glass hammer. But meanwhile, in the real world, police officers don't walk around with every tool that's ever been created just in case it might be handy that day.

 

[Cherry Wine]

Perfect example of Elon next level marketing:

At the end of the ARK interview, he’s praised for “making the world a better place.”

Elon self deprecates, saying that’s like what they all say they do (laughs) have you seen the show Silicon Valley? Interviewer says no... and Elon explains the show...


What he just did is direct audience to watch the show. On the show, Tesla is a major subject of many episodes of one of the seasons. Also, they talk about Elon himself throughout the series as well.

Now if people watch the series, they will learn about Model S... and see the Model S ... in a funny context.

Guerrilla marketing that cost Elon nothing but hits the target audience that listened to the ARC podcast.

This is how you do it in the 21st century. It’s why legacy auto companies can’t understand why Tesla sells more model 3s in California in the last half of 2018 then Honda’s model.

I don't disagree with the assertion that Elon's recommendation to watch Silicon Valley may act as "guerilla marketing", but I think his comment was less calculated than that -- I think it was just the outcome of a genuine interaction between two human beings.

 

[JRP3]

An absolutely fair system - present on TMC for at least since early 2013 - is to mandate EVs also to visit State Inspection Stations once each year; if not for brake/lightbulb/etc. safety, then just for an odometer reading; tax to be applied on whatever per-mile rate the staye deyermines. THIS ALSO SHOULD BE HOW ICEs ATE ASSESSED.

We have yearly safety/emissions inspections here in NYS, they put all data into a state wide computer system, including mileage. If you don't have emissions testing, i.e. older vehicle or EV, it's only $10.