There's a good chance that Madoff was at least partially behind the removal of the uptick rule (originally enacted in 1938 by the SEC "to protect investors from manipulative short-sellers"). The uptick rule was withdrawn by the SEC in late 2007. Bernie was arrested in December 2008. So, perhaps not the only "rule" that survived. Just sayin'.Yeeah, but it was called the 'Madoff Rule' for a reason. Look how that turned out for ol'Bernie... Indeed, the 'rule' is the only thing that survived Madoff's tenure on Wall St.
Expecting Wall St to act morally/ethically/properly is a wishful excercise, one full of counter-examples. ie: 2008 sub-prime and the rating agencies. Jus' sayin'
Cheers!
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
TESLA analysts and shorts finally got it right: Tesla is indeed going to $300 again...it’s just that it took a 5:1 stock split!
I would have awarded this post with a "Funny" if the joke didn't already appear about 10 pages back. So I gave it "Helpful" instead.
I apologize. No ribbons for second place.
Thanks to TSLA, I decided to trade in my P85 and get a new LR Y. I thought about getting another S, but want to try something different. Can't wait to drive it!
Can we knock it off with the personal attacks (I just removed a bunch). And can we pleaaase find someone who really knows, by profession, what this ‘dividend stock split thing’ means for naked shorting, taxes, etc. There’s way too much speculation, there must be someone who can provide the correct answers.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Well there's the Middle-BB breeched. Now question is, will the buying interest continue, or do we see a sell off after a $120 runup vs yesterday's Close:
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I agree with most of what you said but there is not going to be any rapid short covering mainly because shorts can always borrow the newly created shares from market and pay the shares to the original holder of stock. It does not change the net $ amount of short position. IMHO Stock split or stock dividend split does not change anything for shorts or option holders but it grand scheme of things, it is bullish indicator because it signals that the company believes that either stock price is continue to go up or stay at this level for foreseeable future.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
You will have to ask your individual broker and/or check your account agreement.
Chances are, they do. Because brokers don't like chaos and mayhem at their offices. But they also like to protect themselves so they might not be contractually obligated to convert sell orders automatically (in case they make a mistake).
ByeByeJohnny
Active Member
One aspect is that if a 5:1 will really hurt the shorts why then not make it a 10:1 or 20:1 instead? That would hurt them even more. Wouldn't others have done it before if it was that easy? Remember the guy that was shorting Herbalife? If they could have just made a 100:1 split to make him go away why wouldn't they have done so.
So now we have to worry about how much index funds linked to the Dow Jones have to buy TSLA.
It might help to understand the difference between the stock price and the "Par value" of the shares. Tesla shares were created at a Par value of 0.01c each (I think that's right, but some trivial price anyway). Tesla is actually issuing lots and lots of these new shares, and it is costing them about 4*196M*$.0001 ~= $78,400 that moves from their cash to their "paid up capital" on the balance sheet. The value of the dividend to you is measured in fractions of euro cents. There are also tax treaties in place that I think mean that you won't be affected. (Australia has similar tax treaties with the US, and I have had splits of US stock while living in Oz. Nothing happened.)
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
No, goes into effect after trading ends on Fri, Aug 28th.
From the Tesla PR:
"Trading will begin on a stock split-adjusted basis on August 31, 2020."
Cheers!
Don’t know, I always place orders that typically execute the same day.
jeewee3000
Active Member
Thanks again for the many responses by @Boomer19 , @StealthP3D , @Lycanthrope , @NicoV , @ggr (and others) to calm my nerves.
It only seems reasonable that the stock split - even if it would technically be in the form of a stock "dividend" - is non taxable since the value of the newly acquires stocks is (relatively) zero.
That said, as @ByeByeJohnny said international tax issues can always arise, therefore I will seek more answers with my broker and/or accountant and post here if I get some details.
It only seems reasonable that the stock split - even if it would technically be in the form of a stock "dividend" - is non taxable since the value of the newly acquires stocks is (relatively) zero.
That said, as @ByeByeJohnny said international tax issues can always arise, therefore I will seek more answers with my broker and/or accountant and post here if I get some details.
lafrisbee
Active Member
I am with YOU! I asked if anyone could get Hiero to do a Q&A with a group of YOUTUBERS/Ludicrous.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Todd Burch said:
It's ok if the personal attacks are personal, right? What I mean to say is...if we personally attack ourselves, personally?
jeewee3000
Active Member
<enter hundreds of TMC posters telling you to put in a sell order at $3.000 to prevent your shares being borrowed>
(note to those TMC posters: with Belgian brokers your shares can by default not be lent out. You have to allow your broker to do this explicitly and you receive some intrest fees for it)
i am, and i did, in repeated posts
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