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It sounds like you're struggling to grasp the specific, underlying scenario I'm discussing. Don't feel bad, this is dark and shadowy as it gets on Wall St.

The scenario you describe above is how naked shorting by MMs is supposed to work, and why an exception allowing it for MMs was made in SEC Regulation SHO.

What I'm talking about is abuse of the short selling exemption, when a MM undertakes to sell a share short on their own behalf, for profit, as part of their proprietary trading. This is specifically NOT allowed under Regulation SHO, but is difficult to detect thus poorly policed, and seldom enforced.

When a MM does a naked short sale for their own benefit, the follow problems occur (among others):
  • they receive full payment for the share, yet have zero capital outlay (nobody checks MMs accts)
  • there is no 3rd party responsible for the return of the share
  • there is only the MMs own capital reserves to back the transaction
  • this imples there is huge risk for the low-probability worst-case outcome (MM failure)
  • they can literally create as many shares as needed to move the SP to the point they desire (unfettered by the need to locate a share b4 selling, and with ZERO elasticity of demand setting the SPs)
  • they often have no need to deliver those shares at all, as long as they succeed in driving down the price within 13 days (when an FTD report would be required) to the point where they can buy to cover
  • this creates an tremendous financial incentive to create large short positions, well beyond what the market may indicate is appropriate (wonder why TSLA at 1/10th the size of AAPL has a larger short interest?)
So, I suggest you narrow your focus to the specific problem under test, and redo your analysis. I think you'll find the combination of inherent secrecy and financial gain is a powerful enabler for MM misbehavior.

Cheers!

Any links to where I could read up on this over the weekend?

Have not been able to confirm this with any of the sources I've found so far.
 
Are these people f$@&ing for real? Lol! Same breath....

How do we, as the wider adult population, still call these people "analysts" with a straight face?

Are there really people investing based on this advise?
He basically said he is upgrading TSLA because TSLA can raise capital more efficiently NOW THAT THE STOCK PRICE IS SO HIGH.
This is next level brainfuckery
 
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It sounds like you're struggling to grasp the specific, underlying scenario I'm discussing. Don't feel bad, this is dark and shadowy as it gets on Wall St.

The scenario you describe above is how naked shorting by MMs is supposed to work, and why an exception allowing it for MMs was made in SEC Regulation SHO.

What I'm talking about is abuse of the short selling exemption, when a MM undertakes to sell a share short on their own behalf, for profit, as part of their proprietary trading. This is specifically NOT allowed under Regulation SHO, but is difficult to detect thus poorly policed, and seldom enforced.

When a MM does a naked short sale for their own benefit, the follow problems occur (among others):
  • they receive full payment for the share, yet have zero capital outlay (nobody checks MMs accts)
  • there is no 3rd party responsible for the return of the share
  • there is only the MMs own capital reserves to back the transaction
  • this imples there is huge risk for the low-probability worst-case outcome (MM failure)
  • they can literally create as many shares as needed to move the SP to the point they desire (unfettered by the need to locate a share b4 selling, and with ZERO elasticity of demand setting the SPs)
  • they often have no need to deliver those shares at all, as long as they succeed in driving down the price within 13 days (when an FTD report would be required) to the point where they can buy to cover
  • this creates an tremendous financial incentive to create large short positions, well beyond what the market may indicate is appropriate (wonder why TSLA at 1/10th the size of AAPL has a larger short interest?)
So, I suggest you narrow your focus to the specific problem under test, and redo your analysis. I think you'll find the combination of inherent secrecy and financial gain is a powerful enabler for MM misbehavior.

Cheers!

yes but what i have trouble with in that scenario is that someone was on the buy side of that. so even if it wasn’t reported to tape, the buyer needs to receive the shares. that fail to receive is booked somewhere other than the buyers book. nscc tracks fails and either keeps them
net in house, or kicks them out broker to broker. or the short has to borrow from internal or 3rd party in order to fulfill the delivery

if the net gain on the short outpaces the borrow interest, then it’s a win.

if the stock price increases and/or becomes harder to borrow, liq dries up, the interest rate, cost to borrow increases, and the short contemplates covering

currently tesla is easy and cheap to borrow compared to past (solar city days)
 
No, Musk tossing out a comment that Tesla would be willing to act as a supplier in principal is cheap and means nothing, really. I'm sure he means it, but only as far as what he actually said (words to the effect of it would be considered). And it does not further mission to supply batteries for another manufacturer when putting those same batteries in a Tesla will offset more emissions thanks to Tesla's higher efficiency. So after due consideration? No, not happening.

I think your disagreement comes down to a matter of timing:

No, Tesla is not going to wake up tomorrow with a surplus of batteries to sell to others at a profit.

Yes, after three or four years of ramping battery production at their three or four main production facilities they may very well have more batteries than cars.
 
Or do the "honest brokers" (if there is such a thing) know of this naked short activity and are calling this out ahead of time.

Very curious indeed.
I quit the business in 2008. I can tell you that then, and even now, most retail brokers (everyone I've talked to), honest or dishonest, have no idea about this. When I have tried to explain this phenomenon to them, I usually get the eye-roll and they mumble something about tin hat or something like that. /s
 
If this situation (huge pool of naked shorts) is a real thing, I think ANY stock split would have the same effect. I haven't seen any (good) evidence posted here that the word "dividend" is not just a formality of some sort. And I've seen more evidence that it's mostly a meaningless technicality. I mean, regardless of whether you call it a "dividend split" or not, the shares are still splitting and have to be accounted for on a central ledger. Therefore - short squeeze (if there really is a huge pool of naked shorts).
Remember short sellers are sure that the stock will go down. Through actions of the company, actions of the market or their forcing it down with naked shorts. They will not use naked shorts for stocks that they KNOW they don't have the muscle to screw with. Therefore, they would not naked short an Apple or any stock paying a cash dividend.
 
CNBC doing their best to send it down. Comically failing.
Just like the market "analyst's" they are terrible at not only what has already happened but no clue about what is happening right now.

It's like jonas watching a train leaving the station....then reporting that he believes the train might leave the station.

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No, you're just "direct", right :p

TBH, it works, because we're all terrified of you, sir.

Yep, being direct. A Dutch trait :p

As for the current jubilant mood. I get it (I feel it too) and that means moderation had to become more lenient. I can hardly delete 3/4 of all posts... Although, those dishwasher posts, that's tempting.
 
We have a nice mix of insight, analysis, laughs and off topic learnings. All is good for the moment.

Yeah, next year the talk will drop dishwashers and monitors and move onto more interesting and relevant topics like common pitfalls when hiring personal assistants, how to attract the most professional groundskeepers and finding outstanding mistresses/gigolos without breaking the budget. ;)
 
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Looks like we close at $1650 today. I will be pleasantly and unconsolably aroused if we close above that.

Nah, $1700 say I, they can't cap this $1650 the whole day... Don't believe it's worth it - they'll try for a couple of hours and give up, start hedging $1700

Not. An. Advice.
 
Could you further explain what you mean by the 13-day FTD reporting requirement? I read through the Key Points about Regulations SHO, but the only reference to 13 days I could find seemed to refer to the clearing agency having to close out the position after a FTD persists for 13 days.

This is one case where you really need to do you own research. These are not "my" definitions, but regulation put in place on the securities industry by the US.Governent. I can only point you at a starting place, and again remind you that GIYF.

SEC.gov | Fails-to-Deliver Data
 
Nah, $1700 say I, they can't cap this $1650 the whole day... Don't believe it's worth it - they'll try for a couple of hours and give up, start hedging $1700

Not. An. Advice.

If we close above $1700.00 I will gladly post a 3 minute video of myself dancing ballet in short shorts on YouTube. Keep in mind my YouTube channel has over 600 subscribers, so they will get a treat. (I never post anything there anymore and don't even think I have any public videos anymore, but they are leftover from my ~1M views Autopilot video back from 2016 and those old saps must never clear out their Youtube subscription list.)

Anyway, short shorts. Ballet. >$1700.00.

Disclaimer: I am not always a man of my word.