Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Cherry Wine]

Not gonna happen.

Ocasio-Cortez v Tesla: Taxpayers have yet to see ‘return on their investment’

Nice sourcing -- RT? I see other outlets that were quick to pounce on this story include paragons of journalistic virtue such as Breitbart and Daily Caller. Fascinating.

Let's examine the actual quote:

“When we as a public choose to invest in new technologies, we deserve a return on that investment,” Ocasio-Cortez said while talking about the broader Progressive agenda to fund renewable and green technology research with taxpayer money.

“For far too long, we gave money to Tesla, we gave money to a ton of people and we got no return on our investment that the public made in creating technologies, and it’s about time we get our due because it’s the public that funded and financed a lot of innovative technologies,” Ocasio Cortez continued.

Meanwhile, a year earlier on Twitter the (not-yet-elected) Congressmember wrote:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter

Tesla software updates remotely. These vehicles have clear upsides, including the ability to adapt and change functioning. We saw this with Hurricane Irma. Although self-driving cars aren’t 100% here, it’s important to follow our transition there - this is one.

Her stance is muddled at best. It's unclear as to what "return" she feels the public is entitled. Whatever her actual view, I would strongly caution the representative from New York to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

[KarenRei]

Nice sourcing -- RT? I see other outlets that were quick to pounce on this story include paragons of journalistic virtue such as Breitbart and Daily Caller. Fascinating.

Let's examine the actual quote:



Meanwhile, a year earlier on Twitter the (not-yet-elected) Congressmember wrote:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter



Her stance is muddled at best. It's unclear as to what "return" she feels the public is entitled. Whatever her actual view, I would strongly caution the representative from New York to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Does she want the federal government to give Tesla big loans to get interest on them, or buy Tesla stock to profit on the rise? Hey, bring it on!

 

[Matias]

It's about leaving a car with an idling engine unattended, which is illegal in most U.S. states as well. Fire risk, safety risk, carbon monoxide risk.

Off topic Webasto is a market leader auxillary heater at least in Finland and it is not connected to engine. It can be startet by cell phone or remote control.

Webasto Heating Solutions

 

[EVNow]

Her stance is muddled at best. It's unclear as to what "return" she feels the public is entitled.

I guess the argument is - since the government is funding the company, it should get some stake in the technology created. Like how universities get a share of the royalties they create in partnership with private companies.

But ofcourse with Tesla there are a ton of other public good, which we should make AOC aware of.

 

[KarenRei]

wow! Disagrees with sarcasm! I even included the /s tag. I love it here

(Disagreed for humour value )

 

[techmaven]

Nice sourcing -- RT? I see other outlets that were quick to pounce on this story include paragons of journalistic virtue such as Breitbart and Daily Caller. Fascinating.

Let's examine the actual quote:



Meanwhile, a year earlier on Twitter the (not-yet-elected) Congressmember wrote:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter



Her stance is muddled at best. It's unclear as to what "return" she feels the public is entitled. Whatever her actual view, I would strongly caution the representative from New York to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Clearly as a Congressperson from NY, she has to make sure that Tesla’s feet are held to the fire with respect to Gigafactory 2. But that has two sides... making sure the company is doing what it should as well as helping the company succeed. Her earlier comments I think also target the ATVM loan program where the government’s loan was paid off early and the government didn’t partake in the stock gains but took the big risk of bankruptcy. She has a point there, but I am not sure government should be VC in that way.

With this said, I hope she is a part of revamping the alternative fueled vehicle tax credit. I would like to see a single pool like the solar ITC, and maybe some means limiting (but not complete cut out). Something like $2,500 at point of sale, $2,500 tax credit with a phase out above $125,000 income to $200,000 where it goes to zero. So every purchaser gets at least gets $2,500, many of the middle class that buys new cars gets upwards of $5,000. Make it phase out after 2 million plug-ins sold after 1/1/2019, 25% each year starting in the next year after crossing 2 million. Full credit for PHEVs of AER of 40 miles or higher, BEVs of 150 miles or higher. 50% credit for PHEVs of 30 miles or higher, BEVs of 120 miles or higher. I would also like to see matching funds for business charging investment, 30% for home charging.

 

[Matias]

Tesla is more sensitive to China news than the broader market.

That said, they're also sensitive to Europe. Which raises a question: I understand that there's supposed to be a ruling next week about the EU auto tariff. Does anyone have any more information about this? Loss of the 10% EU tariff should totally quell any market demand concerns, regardless of what happens in China. But an increase in the tariff would be taken as a disastrous sign by the market.

I havent heard of any talks regarding the change in import duty.

 

[KarenRei]

Whoa, I totally missed a ship - when did the Emerald Ace show up at Pier 80? Nice.

EMERALD ACE Current position (Vehicles Carrier, IMO 9539236) - VesselFinder

 

[wipster]

Not gonna happen.

Ocasio-Cortez v Tesla: Taxpayers have yet to see ‘return on their investment’

Having just read (well skimmed actually) the Green New Deal, I think AOC really needs to be educated/informed on how much impact Tesla is having in renewable energy and the jobs associated with it. I think her opinion will change when she finds out that Tesla is far more than just a car company, plus it's providing a fair amount of green jobs in New York state with GF2 in Buffalo.

To view Tesla as strictly a monetary investment is pretty myopic, as the company was created to do exactly what the Green New Deal advocates.

Now we just need to find the right person to open her eyes. I admire her enthusiasm, but education about the companies like Tesla who are already working towards the same goals is a necessity in order to make them a reality.

 

[KarenRei]

I havent heard of any talks regarding the change in import duty.

It was mentioned on CNBC about an hour ago.

ED: This might be what was being talked about:

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

But Ms Malmstrom emphasised that while Europe was ready for talks it would immediately hit back if Mr Trump followed through with his threat of punitive tariffs on EU cars.

The US Department of Commerce is set to report by mid-February on whether EU car imports constituted a national security threat, an important procedural step in preparing possible extra duties.

“That would harm our co-operation,” said Ms Malmstrom. “Should that happen, however, we are very advanced in our internal preparations” to respond.

So actually it looks like it's just the opposite: the US is preparing to rule on increasing car tariffs from the EU, and their ruling could trigger retaliatory tariffs on cars. But the EU is dangling as a carrot the removal of their 10% tariff on cars.

Whichever way this goes, this is going to be major news for Tesla next week. Wish I knew what day they were planning to rule....

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

I guess the argument is - since the government is funding the company, it should get some stake in the technology created. Like how universities get a share of the royalties they create in partnership with private companies.

But ofcourse with Tesla there are a ton of other public good, which we should make AOC aware of.

I'd argue that the Tesla jobs and benefits from those jobs to the economy is the "return" she's spouting on about. Her comments on Tesla reeks of ignorance. The 2.4 billion loan for Tesla directly led to tens of thousands of jobs and was paid off early with interest. Her Green Energy plan would have a lot more credibility to me if she say took them to time research the leader in the renewable energy movement(like you know Tesla/Elon. )……. and consult with them about the best path(s) forward. I like her enthusiasm towards clean energy but needs to do due diligence before creating plans and especially before calling out certain companies by name as not giving back to the economy/tax payers

 

[Pezpunk]

I guess the argument is - since the government is funding the company, it should get some stake in the technology created. Like how universities get a share of the royalties they create in partnership with private companies.

But ofcourse with Tesla there are a ton of other public good, which we should make AOC aware of.

i don't think she's saying the Government should have a monetary stake in Tesla. I think she's saying the public deserves to see a return on its investment in the form of transitioning to greener, safer, more efficient vehicles. I'm not sure why she thinks we're not seeing that return yet -- anyone who's purchased a Tesla is certainly reaping those benefits. Perhaps she feels Teslas are still cars primarily attainable only by the relatively wealthy.

Most likely, she probably doesn't follow Tesla's delivery numbers as closely as we do, and isn't aware of just how successful the Model 3 has been at gradually moving down the market and capturing more and more share of increasingly lower priced market segments.

 

[Matias]

It was mentioned on CNBC about an hour ago.

Ok. I remember, that there were few months ago talks about possibility of removing U.S. chicken tax and E.U. import tax, but haven’t heard anything about it since.

 

[KarenRei]

Ok. I remember, that there were few months ago talks about possibility of removing U.S. chicken tax and E.U. import tax, but haven’t heard anything about it since.

See my edit to the above post

 

[EVNow]

I think she's saying the public deserves to see a return on its investment in the form of transitioning to greener, safer, more efficient vehicles.

Government = Public.

government of the people, by the people, for the people ...

 

[aznt1217]

I guess jobs and cleaner air doesn’t count.

I'd rebut her with the following points:

- Tesla took the Energy Loan back in the day to survive and stay an economic engine. Even with this, they paid it back early with interest

- With Tax incentives for the Gigafactories - the overall context is these factories are built in areas that are either beaten down or barren. It's not going to be instant return-- this is long term. It takes time for the building to come up, but the surrounding economy will flourish (services, infrastructure, etc.)

- Federal Tax Credit is available to all. Looking at the Co2 offset number = a huge payoff for humans as a whole. Indirect cost. The focus needs to be on Dino Juice subsidies

 

[KarenRei]

CNBC has to be doing this on purpose. They keep finding every excuse, when talking about Trump and Chinese trade negotiations, to work in that the negotiations are between "He and Xi" [Xi being pronounced "she"].

Also: who would have guessed that I'd be glad to see Tesla's SP start with "$308"? :Þ

 

[Pezpunk]

Government = Public.

government of the people, by the people, for the people ...

uhhh no doi? i was making a distinction between your assertion that she wants the Government to act like Universities and collect royalties from Tesla, and what she was actually probably talking about -- the public good.

 

[Pezpunk]

Moderator-edited: Poster has deleted comment

what an ignorant comment. look at health care in any civilized nation other than the U.S. for an example of successful socialism. There are countless others, but this is not the thread for an extended lesson on that topic.

 

[Lessmog]

Tesla should clarify if this Amazon Tesla store is real. Also what about the other store/brand called TSLA, does it have anything to do with real Tesla? I don't want to donate my money to a fake business.

Well, it does reek a bit of IKEA: högfartmode. Amirite?