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$233 pre-market is a clear over reaction, right?

If I would have read the quarterly letter without seeing the share price, I would have guess we were somewhere from $250-$270. Once I heard about JB leaving, i would have guessed we were closer to the $250 level.

I think it recovers to $250 pretty quickly. I'll take a guess and say we are back at $250+ by Tuesday.

The over reaction to the larger than expected loss will pass.
 
That does not sound like they are planing to produce 1 or 2 TWh of batteries, that sounds like they see the need for such amount of battery storage.

I disagree. This is what Elon said in another part of the call:

Elon Musk: "Yes, I think for Battery Day, we're going to do a comprehensive review of cell chemistry, module and pack, architecture, and a manufacturing plan that has a clear roadmap to a terawatt-hour per year. The time for this probably is about six months like maybe February or March next year, show and tell."​

Edit, in another part Elon said:

Elon Musk: "I think you probably need to study or reset like Master Plan for our Powerplant 3, but it's really like yes to some degree, but Battery Day will be kind of national --, which is like okay, how do we get from kind of – any-tens of gigawatt hours per year to multiple terawatt hours per year."​

Manufacturing capacity to achieve TWh's per year battery pack output, not just storage size - "show and tell" suggests they have a plan for that and want to impress. I concur with @ReflexFunds that they are working on something big, really big.
 
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I'm starting to see a fundamental change in Elon/Tesla's strategy over the past 6-12 months.

He really just wanted to pave the way for EVs and show what is possible, but planned for the rest of the industry to copy Tesla's designs and strategy and build most of the infrastructure.

I don't think this is the case any longer. I think Elon has lost patience with the world and the slow pace of its clean energy transition.
Now he wants to cause the auto OEMs pain, he wants to destroy them.

YES. Agreed 100%. Its pretty clear that he thought they could build a gigafactory and everyone would catch up. Now its clear they will not only not catch up, they will actively try to stop him. So now he is taking the cold, logical approach (which to outsiders or people with a different mindset looks like madness) of just planning the complete 100% takeover of the car industry by tesla.

Automotive growth is 60% YoY. How does that compare with the rest of the auto industry? If they even just sustain that level of growth, without accelerating (which I doubt) then we are looking at
$8.6 billion in Q2 2020
$13.7 billion in Q2 2021 etc...
Also people keep skipping this:

Our total GAAP operating expenses remained relatively flat at $1.1 billion in Q2 in spite of 50% quarter-over-quarter growth in vehicle deliveries

I would KILL to have that in my business,
 
My biggest disappointment over the past few years is the energy storage ramp speed. I envisioned that accelerating much faster than it has.
This is mainly political. For example, Texas politicians have called battery storage "electrical generation" so that it can't complete with the peaker generating plants. This will be another fight to the death with the established utilities and power generating companies.
 
Elon - "we expect growth to continue in the future at -- for several years to come at 50% to 100% level."​

I feel like this was terribly mistimed. Nobody should expect a 50-100% YoY growth for Q32019.

50% growth YoY in Q32019 is 125,250 cars delivered, or just a tick under the magical 10k cars/wk. Of course, I'll be extremely happy if Tesla hits that, but I think the chances of that are very low.
 
anyone recall how long it was after Fred destroyed S/X sales with the refresh imminent article and Tesla finally getting around to correcting that bad intel?
The youtubers made their videos about upcoming refreshes only because the bad fred intel wasn't corrected and therefor appeared genuine. Then all those YT viewers see it as true information up until they maybe hear about Elon saying no refresh coming....weeks later.
This guy put off getting a raven because of fred.
Letting Youtube be the advertisers, and letting them use bad intel for weeks on end is for me an unacceptable level of stupidity.
 
So is Tesla an automaker and should be valued as one or is it a tech / energy company? We gotta decide, can't have it both ways.
Why not? It's a hybrid, after all. It's a tech company for obvious reasons, and not only an automaker, but much broader a manufacturing company too, and a small part of it is an energy company. And this is the reason the market doesn't value Tesla as pure tech play.
A pure tech company would be fabless, like Apple, Nvidia, AMD, Microsoft.
 
I feel like this was terribly mistimed. Nobody should expect a 50-100% YoY growth for Q32019.

50% growth YoY in Q32019 is 125,250 cars delivered, or just a tick under the magical 10k cars/wk. Of course, I'll be extremely happy if Tesla hits that, but I think the chances of that are very low.
Agreed, but the 50-100% has never been a straight line. Q4 will start rising if Shanghai is producing in volume and Q1 should be over 100% YOY.
 
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This. I would never think to call Apple. You reserve a specific type of service reservation and turn up. Phone calls are positively disliked by millennials.
1. Not only millennials.
2. I use Apple's chat when I need service. I would use Tesla's chat if there was such a thing, but even though the phone tree says there is a chat, I couldn't find it.
 
Elon said on the call that SX is demand limited. We aren't going to see expanding margins and volumes until demand increases.
That is not what he said. He said that the percentage of revenue from S and X would become a smaller part of Tesla. Pretty "captain obvious" if you think about the 3 and Y total sales vs S and X. There are a lot more folks who can purchase 3 and Y than there are who can afford S and X. Not to mention that in many parts of the world S and X are just too large to be practical regardless of your personal financial situation. And when T comes along the sales will be even larger.
 
$233 pre-market is a clear over reaction, right?

If I would have read the quarterly letter without seeing the share price, I would have guess we were somewhere from $250-$270. Once I heard about JB leaving, i would have guessed we were closer to the $250 level.

I think it recovers to $250 pretty quickly. I'll take a guess and say we are back at $250+ by Tuesday.

The over reaction to the larger than expected loss will pass.
Based on how fast it rebounded last month I would think investors are going to let it reach a point they like then pounce. Likely will see $220 as that point. I think it gets pushed down for a few days though
 
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Some standout 2Q19 call quotes:

I'm wondering whether you noticed the following exchange about GF3 Shanghai battery packs:

Colin Rusch:

"Can you walk us through the plan for battery sourcing in China? How many -- how much of the supply is going to come from internally produced batteries? How much is coming from externally? And what's your expectation around cost per watt hours as you start to ramp?"
Elon Musk:

"I don't know if we want to talk about the details of battery supply. We've got a good handle on. We don't expect to be self constrained in China for the next year, I don't know. Drew what do you think?"
Drew Baglino:

"Yes, that's what our plan looks like right now. In terms of internal versus external, I think we should wait until we have our discussion early next year. But yes, we have agreements in place with -- we're good for next year as you say Elon."​

Note how Drew stopped short of disclosing with whom exactly Tesla has a battery cell agreement for GF3 next year, but he clearly disclosed that they do have an agreement in place to cover planned GF3 production.

This would be a significant deal: with ~150k GF3 units in 2020 if they ramp up quickly to 3k/week, which with an SR battery pack size of 55 kWh means about ~8 GWh of cell supply. I also think it's probably a short term deal only covering 2020 GF3 requirements.

I think if it was Panasonic they'd have no problem saying that out loud, right? So pretty much the only other possibility is either Samsung who makes 2170 cells, or, more likely, a local Chinese cell supplier?

Also note the other disclosure here: "In terms of internal versus external, I think we should wait until we have our discussion early next year" - which IMO is a pretty clear reference to Tesla making their own cells. ;)

Elon might also have disclosed the name of their new project:

Elon Musk:

"I think you probably need to study or reset like Master Plan for our Powerplant 3, but it's really like yes to some degree, but Battery Day will be kind of national --, which is like okay, how do we get from kind of – any-tens of gigawatt hours per year to multiple terawatt hours per year."​

Is this a transcription error, or did Elon just name it "Powerplant 3"?
 
Having attended the shareholder's meeting, I instantly realized JB was leaving when he and Drew were brought onstage by Elon. It was obvious, and it was my first thought.

Hearing Elon joke about S and X spelling SEXY just now on the call and hearing him say S/X in the same breath are not that important in the long term is really shocking. Makes me think their days are numbered.
At first I considered your post flippant, but then I paused, and came back to it. If Elon and Tesla believe that the whole Tesla Taxi thing is going to work, they are pretty much going to bet the farm on it. Once Tesla Taxi is up and running, they probably will stop making the S&X or at least one of them, and only do the 3 and Y.
People who want the S&X aren't going to put their vehicles into the ride sharing platform, and eventually the 3 and Y will be making so much $ from Tesla Taxi that there will be little incentive to sell them to individuals.
So, my prediction is, when Elon and Tesla believe that Tesla Taxi is going live, the S&X may be killed off, or at that time finally have a redesign which turns them into just larger taxis.
 
anyone recall how long it was after Fred destroyed S/X sales with the refresh imminent article and Tesla finally getting around to correcting that bad intel?
The youtubers made their videos about upcoming refreshes only because the bad fred intel wasn't corrected and therefor appeared genuine. Then all those YT viewers see it as true information up until they maybe hear about Elon saying no refresh coming....weeks later.
This guy put off getting a raven because of fred.
Letting Youtube be the advertisers, and letting them use bad intel for weeks on end is for me an unacceptable level of stupidity.

@Fact Checking also pointed this out. I don't know how true this is, but then this supports the notion that Tesla should advertise to set the record straight. You can't have your cake and eat it too, when it comes to not advertising. Those against advertising say that Musk has 27 million followers and so don't need to advertise. But then you can't turn around and complain about Fred and Electrek. You're always going to have mis-information in the media, either inadvertently or maliciously. You can't rely on the media, especially when it comes to Tesla, to communicate the correct message for you.

So the question is whether Musk's strong Twitter presence precludes the need for advertising.

Heck, even Apple advertises. Ads don't have to be dishonest or misleading (as Musk complains), even though many are. Just look at the Apple ads vs Samsung in the early days of the smartphone. Apple's ads always showed actual screenshots, whereas Samsung's were simulations (as stated in the footnotes or smallprint).
 
I thought on the whole the Q2 call was very positive, aside from the JB departure but that was not entirely unexpected. Lots of very positive updates on demand and future plans. Elon was slightly back to hype mode - I think partly because he was feeling defensive over the JB announcement - I don't think he would necessarily have let their TWh battery cell plans out the bag otherwise.

Some standout 2Q19 call quotes:

Elon - "we expect growth to continue in the future at -- for several years to come at 50% to 100% level."

Elon - "We also have to finalize a location for our European Gigafactory before the end of the year."

Elon - "Here at Fremont, preparations for Model Y production has already begun.

Elon - "And we expect the manufacturing costs for Model Y despite additional content to be approximately the same as Model 3."

Elon - "We expect to be cash flow -- free cash flow positive in future quarters with the possible temporary exceptions around the launch and ramp of new product. From a profitability standpoint, we expect to be probably around breakeven this quarter and profitable next quarter, so that's -- I feel pretty confident about that."

Elon - "And then in terms of deliveries, we expect deliveries to be between 360,000 and 400,000. We expect production to be a slightly higher number than that, and demand to be a slightly higher number than that."

Zach - "There's $117 million within operating expenses for restructuring. We had a sequential reduction of $104 million related to regulatory credit, which is inherently lumpy. And in our other income line, we saw a $66 million reduction."

Zach - "For Model 3, global ASPs stabilized during the quarter at roughly $50,000, a sequential reduction, yet gross profit per Model 3 improved representing the continued success of our cost management efforts."

Zach - "while operating expenses and capital expenses may appear to be unnaturally low this quarter, that's not the case. Rather these reflect continued progress on cost efficiency and ability to scale our core technologies and processes."

Zach - "nearly all orders generated in Q2 were non-reservation holders."

Elon - "we have already opened to 25 new service locations this quarter and that will increase -- the rate of service center opening will increase dramatically through the course of this year as well as more Mobile Service."

Zach - "And thus far in Q3, our order pacing is ahead of where we were at this point in Q2. And as we noted in our Q2 production and delivery release, our order backlog increased over the course of Q2."

Zach - "I feel as though we've broken through a baseline fixed cost barrier, enabled by the success of the Model 3 business."

Zach - "With continued focus on execution and cost management, the next 12 to 18 months should be the most exciting yet. During this time, we believe that Gigafactory, Shanghai will be producing at scale. Model Y will be in production, addressing the most popular vehicle segment. Our European Gigafactory will be well underway. Our autonomous driving feature suite will continue to develop; energy products business will grow and maybe a few other things along the way."

Elon - JB Straubel, our Co-founder and Chief Technology Officer will be transitioning to a Senior Advisor from the CTO role; and Drew Baglino will be taking over most of JB's responsibilities.

Drew We have seen improvements in the 23-gigawatt hour number. We're in the high 20s now with the trajectory continuing upward. We're not...
Elon So about 28-ish?
Drew Yes 28-ish. I would say, we're not so constrained for any of our activities at the moment.
Elon Cell volume is approximately matching the production ramp rate.

Zach - "And so, I would expect some adjustment to our Model 3 ASPs as a result of this pricing change, but the trim mix will offset some of that. And we continue to make great progress on cost efficiencies. And so, overall in that our expectation is that the Model 3 gross margin will continue to grow."

Elon - "Are you asking like what do I think the long-term demand for Model 3 is in Greater China region? I think it's about, from Shanghai Gigafactory, I think it's actually -- long-term demand is about 5,000 a week."

Elon - "I think for Battery Day, we're going to do a comprehensive review of cell chemistry, module and pack, architecture, and a manufacturing plan that has a clear roadmap to a terawatt-hour per year. The time for this probably is about six months like maybe February or March next year, show and tell"

Elon - "it's probably 2021 before we have an operational Gigafactory in Europe."
Elon - "I think say long-term demand is for Model 3, it's probably 15,000 units a week globally something like that."


Elon - "Demand in Q3 will exceed Q2. It has thus far, and I think we'll see some acceleration of that. So -- and then, I think Q4 will be, I think very strong. So, we expect that quarter-over-quarter improvements. I think Q1 next year will be tough. I think Q3 or Q4 will be good, Q1 will be tough. Q2 will be not as bad, but still tough. And then I see like Q3 and Q4 next year will be incredible."

Zach - "But generally speaking, our order rates so far this quarter is higher than where we were at this point in Q2, and we haven't seen a significant impact on U.S. based orders as a result of the step down."

Elon - "And I think we actually want to address that communications issue and just get a better understanding of– from the front lines like what demand should be higher for S and X than it is and will get to the bottom of it and fix it."

Elon - On 3/S/X gross margin. "So, yes, absolutely, I think, like long term we are talking 25%, 30%. Not long term meaning like a year. Long term, like, in terms of vernacular that 30% gross margin is I think quite likely."

Jerome - "Labor cost saw more than 50% reduction in one year. Yes, it's progressing every quarter. Yes. Reduced in half, yes, since the Q3 last year, but it's also all the -- for the fact that's associated with spares, the scrap is reduced to pretty much nothing, reduced 90% year-over-year. Spares are just more than half. So we're -- our goal is to make the car more affordable and sort of pushing everyday, yes. And every week we'll beat records on most lines."

Joseph Osha And just as a follow-on then, could we see you manage to make 8,000, 7,500, 8,000 Model 3s in Fremont by the end of the year you think?
Elon Yes. I mean I feel confident it's -- let's just say that the trend is very clearly towards being able to get to 10,000 vehicles a week of which that would be -- there is rough numbers like 8,300 to 8,600 Model 3s and the balance in S and X. So, there's sort of 1,600 to 1,800 SX. In round numbers 8,500 3s, 1,500 SX per week, but probably a bit more than that.

Zach - "generally as I've commented in the past, we expect regulatory credits to become a more meaningful part of our business." " And as you model regulatory credits in Q3, I would not expect a significant increase in regulatory credits, although it's hard to forecast exactly."

Colin - Can you walk us through the plan for battery sourcing in China? How many -- how much of the supply is going to come from internally produced batteries? How much is coming from externally? ...
Elon - I don't know if we want to talk about the details of battery supply. We've got a good handle on. We don't expect to be self constrained in China for the next year, I don't know. Drew what do you think?
Drew - Yes, that's what our plan looks like right now. In terms of internal versus external, I think we should wait until we have our discussion early next year. But yes, we have agreements in place with -- we're good for next year as you say Elon.

Elon: "To some degree battery day will kind of be master plan part three. Which will be how do we get from tens of GWh per year to multiple TWh per year. That's a pretty giant scale increase. That's an increase of roughly 100x. "
Elon: ... "How do we get to like 2TWh per year"
Drew: "That's the way you have to think about it because that's what you need to do."
Elon: "Yeah exactly. In order to really make a fundamental shift in the world's energy usage, and really transform things to a sustainable energy future, if you're not in the TWh range its a nice news story but its not fundamentally changing the energy equation"

Elon - "long-term sales of – long term meaning, a couple of years I think. The demand for -- sales demand for 3 is like on the order of three quarters of a million units a year, and it's probably 1.25 million per year for Model Year, so they combined is like maybe two million from those two vehicles, and then S/X is like there may be 80,000 to 100,000 a year."

Elon - "Service centers are the key to sales, not the retail locations"

Elon - "Supercharging is incredibly important to us. You can't just have like 80% of the routes somebody who wants to take, you need 100% routes"

Elon - "We really just need to look at the total system efficiency and say in the limit, if Tesla was the auto industry, how would we do it to maximize economic efficiency. And that's -- we're got to kind of like recalculate that optimization, as we achieve greater scale. I'm confident we can achieve a fundamentally better economic efficiency than the rest of the auto industry."​

Some thoughts on this:
  • Elon said in about 2 years he expects Model 3 demand to be c.750k, Model Y to be c.1.25 million and Model S/X to be 80-100k. In the $35k release media call Elon said he expected Model 3 long term demand to be around 500k - so with more information post SR+ release he has increased this estimate back up to 750k.
  • It sounds very much like Tesla are targeting c.8.5k Model 3 per week at Fremont by year end, and c.1.5k Model S/X.
  • When Elon talks about 4Q19 being very strong, 1Q20 tough, 2Q20 not as bad but still tough, 3Q20 & 2Q20 incredible - I think he is still talking about sequential volume growth - not necessarily profit or cash flow. 1H is always tough on seasonality and I guess they also have the final US credit step down and Holland tax change against them.