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Does my experience at Tesla compare with others?

Carol and I went to the Orlando Tesla sales and service location. We went Thursday to drop off her model 3, and picked it up yesterday, Friday.

No handshakes, which was a little comical with the sales team. They were having to think about it.

Both days it was crazy busy.

They were delivering 2 or more cars every half hour. I could tell with yellow post-it notes on the windshields.

We saw our first model Y from a distance. It was being charged before delivery.

I wanted to go into the service to take a closer look. They seemed like they would be OK with that, but nobody had time to babysit me at that moment.

They had delivered 4 or 5 model Y’s already.

It’s a gorgeous car.

Gas anyone else visited a sales office this week?

If so, what was your experience like?


A sales office no. We have a model 3 AWD Red White 19 sport rims on order since 10th of March. Surprisingly the manage page showed a 2 to 3 week delivery when we got the confirmation of order. It still does. Our delivery centre is Vancouver BC. We were thinking that it would now be delayed a few months as the factory is shutting down for who knows how long. Out of curiousity we started a chat on the Tesla site and asked the guy how long he thought it would be just from the point of view of making arrangements to pick it up. Surprisingly he felt there was still a strong possibility of seeing a serial number before the end of the month. Kinda surprised us. We are not in a hurry and quite honestly put the health of Tesla workers ahead of our new shiny car. However, now we find out that even if it is ready to get picked up in the next week or so Covid19 has pretty much eliminated and chance of getting to Vancouver to pick it up. Barely any flights and only if there is good reason. We’ll have to either turn it down or hope they can ship it to us. We are 467 km away from the delivery centre.

Oh well, first world problems. Stay healthy fellow teslafreaks.
 
yikes, and you think that helps your position? Scott Adams is a moron and seriously human garbage.

Addressing the content, since I know nothing about the man: Human psychology doesn’t typically work that way. You can’t(usually) just bottle up whatever a person was feeling before, put it on hold, and then pop open the cork later, making them behave exactly the same way as before the crisis. And recent history doesn’t really show evidence of “patriotic hiring”. Maybe back during the Greatest Generation’s times, such things were more common. But we’re living in the “lay-off 5 people and make the one remaining guy do all those jobs without increasing his pay” age.
 
In terms of the path to domination, only massive bailouts will allow other automakers to mount a serious challenge.

On the topic of automaker bailouts, GM announced on March 5th a dividend payment of 0.38$/share (which was paid out yesterday) - given their current market cap & SP, that should total to just over 540M$ - or about 2.1% of their market cap as of yesterday's close.

Would GM's decision to pay out a dividend to their share holders influence the size of their bailout?
- I mean, in principle Uncle Sam could say:

"OK Automakers, line up to get your free money. No pushing! Wait... (checks notes) GM just paid out a half billion dollars in dividends which they really shouldn't have at this time so I take that back from you and give it to someone who didn't screw around... (checks notes again) Here you go, Tesla."

Disclaimer: I know about GM's dividend payments because I am a GM short seller (which means that I paid 38 cents per share to the lender of the shares that I borrowed + sold). Nevertheless, I feel I can ask the question without being a hypocrite.

PS. Since people like to talk about real vs paper gains/losses (aka realized vs unrealized gains/losses), let me give a real-world example of the difference: The dividend payment gave me a realized loss of 0.38$/share - contrasted with a current, unrealized gain of 12.70$/share (since my selling price was 30.61$ and the current bid is 17.91$). Added to that is accrued borrow interest (a yet-to-be realized loss) of 0.25% p.a. Added to that is opportunity cost, in the form of a required margin maintenance on my short position which lowers the amount of investing I can do using my portfolio as collateral. In other words, having short sold GM (and bought TSLA for the proceeds) puts a limit to what other trades I can do. Some days ago I asked my broker to detail how they arrive at my total maintenance margin, they didn't answer (yet). But I can get a little clue by looking at how my maintenance margin would be influenced if I closed my GM position.

PPS. Fixed a nasty typo, pointed out by @mongo. Thank you!
 
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If China can get back on track faster than the West, then that sort of thing is very likely. Shouldn't be a surprise to us really. We have all been musing about the high debt levels of legacy autos and expecting them to fail during the EV transition. This macro event might wind up being a huge gift to Tesla.
Interesting that the USA exported the Spanish flu in 1817-18 and became a superpower on the other side of the pandemic. The USA didn’t become a superpower because of the Spanish flu and that’s not Covid 19 is not why China will become a superpower. It’s how we responded then and how they are responding now.
The west is relatively weak vs the world of 1999. Governments may start investing in strategic companies again to keep national ownership. if China is already bouncing back and the west doesn’t, the balance of power could shift significantly in a short period of time.

More germaine to thread, has anyone heard about expanded home deliveries in the USA and Europe? Is there a thread?
 
On the topic of automaker bailouts, GM announced on March 5th a dividend payment of 0.38$/share (which was paid out yesterday) - given their current market cap & SP, that should total to just over 540M$ - or about 2.1% of their market cap as of yesterday's close.

Would GM's decision to pay out a dividend to their share holders influence the size of their bailout?
- I mean, in principle Uncle Sam could say:

"OK Automakers, line up to get your free money. No pushing! Wait... (checks notes) GM just paid out a half billion dollars in dividends which they really shouldn't have at this time so I take that back from you and give it to someone who didn't screw around... (checks notes again) Here you go, Tesla."

Disclaimer: I know about GM's dividend payments because I am a GM short seller (which means that I paid 38 cents per share to the lender of the shares that I borrowed + sold). Nevertheless, I feel I can ask the question without being a hypocrite.

PS. Since people like to talk about real vs paper gains/losses (aka realized vs unrealized gains/losses), let me give a real-world example of the difference: The dividend payment gave me a realized loss of 0.38$/share - contrasted with a current, unrealized gain of 33.42$/share (since my selling price was 30.61$ and the current bid is 17.91$). Added to that is accrued borrow interest (a yet-to-be realized loss) of 0.25% p.a. Added to that is opportunity cost, in the form of a required margin maintenance on my short position which lowers the amount of investing I can do using my portfolio as collateral. In other words, having short sold GM (and bought TSLA for the proceeds) puts a limit to what other trades I can do. Some days ago I asked my broker to detail how they arrive at my total maintenance margin, they didn't answer (yet). But I can get a little clue by looking at how my maintenance margin would be influenced if I closed my GM position.

"OK Automakers, line up to get your free money. No pushing! Wait... (checks notes) GM just paid out a half billion dollars in dividends which they really shouldn't have at this time so I take that back from you and give it to someone who didn't screw around... (checks notes again) Here you go, Tesla."

Trump has gone on record during press conferences that bailout money cannot subsidize buybacks.

Coupling that with Democrat Party constituents/leadership that are often anti-business/corporate management compensation, I strongly believe that companies will be forced to slash dividends as a byproduct of any "free" money. Also, despite the fact that for the most part companies are not to blame for this Global crisis, I believe the Government will require stakes in the companies taking money.

FWIW: companies needing cash would necessarily eliminate dividends but would still be pilloried for past buybacks (regardless of justification).
 
I hate to say this as a bull and as someone who got back in at 358, but over the last two days I’ve been getting stronger doubts about a quick recovery for Tesla:
  • If the economies of the US and Europe take a 20% hit in the second quarter new car sales will drop by 50% or more. People have other things on their mind, other concerns. This will hit Tesla sales too, despite pent up demand for Model Y. I don’t expect many Model S and X sales, and Model 3 sales will probably be lackluster.
  • Such a huge GDP drop will have lasting effects for the rest of the year and maybe beyond. Some sectors of the economy, like tourism, travel and leisure, will need 1-2 years to recover. The economy as a whole will suffer. Handing out checks of a few thousand dollars to everyone is unlikely to stimulate car sales.
  • The stock market crash destroyed a lot of wealth, which will have a lasting effect on the sale of luxury cars.
  • China may be recovering from the corona crisis, but if demand for products from the US, Europe and the rest of the world dries up the export sector will not get back on its feet. This is such an important part of the Chinese economy that new car sales will suffer.
  • Climate change will be taking a back seat for a while now that the pandemic has become concern #1. Going electric may not be high on people’s priority list when they have other concerns.
  • Governments all around the world will have to spend trillions to keep their economies from totally collapsing (as an example: the Dutch government said it would need 45 to 65 billion euro just for the second quarter to prop up companies. And we are a small country of just 17 million people). In many countries there will be no money left to subsidize the switch to electric.
  • In order to save the European car industry the mandatory changes to fuel economy will likely be relaxed, and fines postponed (which would effectively kill the Tesla-FCA deal).
  • The low oil price, which is unlikely to recover during a recession or depression, doesn’t stimulate switching to electric.
I fear this chain of events will set back Tesla for at least 1-2 years. Which is a terrible shame because the path to domination was so clear. Tesla will eventually get back on that path again and it will be in an even stronger position than before compared to the competition, but it will have to go through the ‘valley of the shadow of death’ first, for the third time in its history.

Having said that, I will be buying more shares in case we go under 350. I might not see a quick appreciation of those shares but that’s ok. It may take a few years longer than we expected but Tesla will still become that 1 trillion dollar company.
I have an outside perspective of where your mind might be, and it is good news for you.
It seems like you had a nice hard clear believable path for Tesla, and you believed that was concrete. Now it ain't. And that's the issue. Most agree, Tesla is capable of adapting to change. So, if you believe that.... They got this.
 
Getting a bit OT for this thread, so I'll try to be brief: Iceland has a company named deCODE Genetics, which was designed around doing whole-population genetic studies for disease modeling, so the company has been repurposed into doing randomized sampling of the population to look for COVID-19 in people who are not suspect cases - just the general public. They found the disease in around 1% of the general population over a period of a couple weeks (reported 1 week ago) - an implied per-capita rate twentyfold that of the country's official diagnoses at the time of reporting (which in turn has involved one of the most aggressive testing regimes in the world). Over half had no symptoms whatsoever, and the rest, generally just a minor cold.

In an experiment which started several weeks ago, Italy tested the entire town of Vò in a series of rounds and successfully eradicated the disease from the town. Again, this is one of the few cases of experiments of testing of the general population rather than suspect cases. 3% of the population was determined as infected during the first round. 50-75% of them were entirely asymptomatic. Most of the rest had only minor cold symptoms and did not suspect that they had the disease. During the study, asymptomatic cases usually remained asymptomatic, and most minor cases remained minor.

The net picture is that the disease was already widespread even several weeks ago; that people with no symptoms whatsoever are the majority; and of those with symptoms, symptoms so minor that people don't get tested are by far the most common. To match with the death rate (as severe cases almost always get tested), a widespread disease in the population implies a low IFR (infection fatality rate), and implies that places with overloaded medical systems are overloaded not because the disease sends a large percent of its victims to the hospital, but because a large percent of the population has already gotten infected. This implies that the disease will tend to play itself out sooner.

As mentioned, the other study I mentioned (still preliminary) estimated that Wuhan hit a 19% infection rate at its peak, and that the disease had a non-time-delay IFR of 0,04% and a time-delay IFR of 0,12%. They also found (as others have) that the disease is highly prone to nosocomical transmission (spread inside hospitals and clinics, generally by staff) - that is to say, prone to spread to the most vulnerable of patients. I.e. that stamping out nosocomical transmission is one of the most important steps that can be done. Both Wuhan and Lombardy had extensive problems with nosocomical transmission before the severity of the situation was realized.

ED: Well, so much for trying to be brief...
This post is IMHO the most useful single post I have found anywhere. Why? Because Karen pointed us to two specific factual investigations that in turn give crucial insight to several ways to extract the world from this disaster. Solutions will not be very fast nor will they be easy. Now, though, there is proof that symptomless SARS-CoV-2 carriers are the majority, at least in some places. That alone will allow a total revision of testing regimes. It also might well permit a vast reduction in COVID-19 spread within caregiving communities. That alone will allow social distancing to become far more refined. On a longer term basis this now affords a new approach to research; finding a way to replicate the bodies ability to withstand SARS-CoV-2 without acquiring COVID-19.

Without a doubt people are working hard on that approach right now. For sure scientists in China are pursuing this approach with early Wuhan exposures also.

Thanks, Karen, for giving hope.
 
BillWright on Twitter

upload_2020-3-21_16-57-42.png


I don't know about the Tesla side, but the Panasonic side planning to start ramping down operations next week and being down for 14 days seemed pretty authoritative:

Tesla partner Panasonic is shutting down its operations at Nevada gigafactory – TechCrunch
 
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Coupling that with Democrat Party

JFYI, please get the name right, it's the "Democratic Party".

"Democrat Party" is an epithet, a derogatory slur that the Republican party increasingly started using it in the Newt Gingrich radicalization era:

Democrat Party (epithet) - Wikipedia

Political commentator William Safire wrote in 1993 that the Democrat of Democrat Party "does conveniently rhyme with autocrat, plutocrat, and worst of all, bureaucrat".

In 2006, Hendrik Hertzberg wrote in The New Yorker:

There's no great mystery about the motives behind this deliberate misnaming. "Democrat Party" is a slur, or intended to be—a handy way to express contempt. Aesthetic judgments are subjective, of course, but "Democrat Party" is jarring verging on ugly. It fairly screams "rat".​

So please don't use this slur here, the same way you wouldn't call TMC readers "teslings" or "cultists".
 
JFYI, please get the name right, it's the "Democratic Party".

"Democrat Party" is an epithet, a derogatory slur that the Republican party increasingly started using it in the Newt Gingrich radicalization era:

Democrat Party (epithet) - Wikipedia

Political commentator William Safire wrote in 1993 that the Democrat of Democrat Party "does conveniently rhyme with autocrat, plutocrat, and worst of all, bureaucrat".

In 2006, Hendrik Hertzberg wrote in The New Yorker:

There's no great mystery about the motives behind this deliberate misnaming. "Democrat Party" is a slur, or intended to be—a handy way to express contempt. Aesthetic judgments are subjective, of course, but "Democrat Party" is jarring verging on ugly. It fairly screams "rat".​

So please don't use this slur here, the same way you wouldn't call TMC readers "teslings" or "cultists".

oh please stop, it was an early morning iPhone typo, not meant to be a DAMN SLUR, which is btw a pretty harsh word.

And, your citation is nowhere to be found in today's vernacular and more importantly has nothing to do with my views.

btw: my entire family since emigrating from Europe in 1927 have been & vote for DEMOCRATS.
 
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We need to learn whether Tesla's contract with Panasonic permits Tesla to take over some of the latter's manufacturing sections / technology upon such an action. Each is at least somewhat dependent on the other party performing, and it is easy to make the case that Party A suffers Real Damage were Party B not to do so. Rather than sue for damages, performing those actions can be a far less ugly and costly alternative.
 
Has anyone taken out a low (or 0%) loan to use for investing?

I've already used one HELOC, will use my other in the case of another 10-15% drop market drop or if Tesla goes to 300 or lower

I'm sooooooo happy I kept both HELOC's open and paid off for just an occasion like this.
 
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BillWright on Twitter

View attachment 524002

I don't know about the Tesla side, but the Panasonic side planning to start ramping down operations next week and being down for 14 days seemed pretty authoritative:

Tesla partner Panasonic is shutting down its operations at Nevada gigafactory – TechCrunch

Panasonic : We're going to take the next 14 days off instead of using protective measures to continue operations

Tesla: Hey we know the process for cell manufacturing, we're just gonna keep your operations going while your people are gone

Panasonic: .....OK

(Two weeks later)

Panasonic: Hey we're back!

Tesla: Hey so about that.....we were able to increase your production/efficiency so I think we're just gonna take over from here

Panasonic: .........We made a mistake
 
There is value in the brand and maybe still the quality of the interior and sound dampening engineering. Throw out the legacy drive train, design a new platform for EV, and this may just be able to be turned into another winner. Doesn't have to have to be as cutting edge and lean as Tesla to be viable.

I disagree with this line of thinking because it attributes "quality interior" and "plentiful sound-damping" to a technological lead that legacy makers have over Tesla. That is not the case. These technologies are not rocket science. In other words, there is no technological barrier to Tesla adding more expensive interior detailing, heavier and more expensive interior materials or additional (but heavy and expensive) sound dampening.

The fact that Tesla has less of these things than the competition in the luxury segment was a conscious decision to reduce cost, weight and simplify assembly, betting that the weight and cost were not worth it in terms of jacking up the price and impacting handling, reducing load capacity and efficiency while slowing production. Existing manufacturers have taken these things to the extreme in an attempt to differentiate their bland offerings from the competition. Tesla decided their products had enough differentiation without competing excessively on those qualities, qualities they felt had a low return on investment.