Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MTL_HABS1909]

On Friday Tesla increased the prices of all their cars for sale in Norway.

The most affordable Model 3 SR Plus is 12% up. Other models are up from 2.4% to 8%.

That does not sound like a car manufacturer with demand problems.

The Krone is down 16% compared to the Dollar since New Years Eve. So this is probably the reason why.

Source: Tesla øker prisene

Same thing in Canada. Except the SR+ had to stay the same price in order to still qualify for the Federal $5000 rebate. All other Tesla models saw a price increase.

 

[PeterJA]

When is what causes most of the criticism, especially with FSD. If you assume Elon is wrong about the timing of FSD you'll be right more often than not.

Fair enough, but history has also taught me:
3) Elon and his companies learn from experience.

Since most of those were late...

True, but look at the trend. Models S, X, and 3 were late, but not Model Y.
GF1 and GF2 started slow, but not GF3.

I would not assume Elon's errors about the timing of FSD will continue indefinitely.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

China's EV Sales Show Signs Of Recovering From Coronavirus Pandemic | CleanTechnica

Sales were much better in March compared to February, but a long way from where they were last March. Hopefully the sales continue to accelerate in April

 

[junas]

You still haven't answered why only Tesla counts as needing to get prices lower? I am sure before Tesla Europeans didn't just buy Porsche. There are many other EVs in Europe right? I mean I don't seriously know. If Tesla is the only EV maker then you will never see the prices come down.

Also does your quoted price include taxes or incentives? Again I actually don't know. In the US the SR price does not include destination fees, taxes or incentives.

You are right other EVs are needed too to get prices down. Currently there are only a few affordable options and demand for e.g. Hyundai Kona is way above supply. Hopefully later this year VW gets their ID3 on the road. It benefits Tesla too if more people realize buying a gas car now means zero residual value in few years. In the long term it benefits even more when people realize Tesla builds better EVs than competitors. It's hard to rebuild reputation later if competitors fail their first EV attempts.

To your latter question: All prices always include taxes in Europe. In some countries the price includes incentives and in some countries it's compensated afterwards in taxes. Probably Jato research has taken the actual selling prices (incentives included in some countries, but not in all).

 

[dc_h]

I guess what I'm trying to say is the shutdown is probably going to last longer than May 4. I was wishfully hoping we'd have an earlier reopening of the economy.

Tesla could reopen sooner, but at what cost? They get enough bad press as it is; I can imagine the media frenzy blaming Tesla for further spreading the virus should they reopen before state/federal government gives the rest of the country the green light. Could be very bad PR.

I’d like to see Tesla show people how to restart the economy. Start at 50-60% maybe, have right PPE for line employees and build on the touchless delivery process. I expect they’ll be significantly more productive when they come back.

• Will they have the aluminum injection system online for the model 3?
• Will they enable any of the new wiring process for the Y?
  Is the one piece rear trunk mold ready for the model 3?
• Has Panasonic updated battery chemistry to increase range?
• Will they offer the RWD long range again?

 

[Drumheller]

Cool - you should patent that....

@Fact Checking @KarenRei The moderators will not stop us posting OT. This is why you left.

Is this forum populated with people unable to control themselves? Why should it be anyone's job to go clean up off topic posts? Good communities are created when members are respectful and mods have very little to do.

Karen and Fact Checking chose to leave. They weren't vacationed or banned.

 

[Artful Dodger]

OPEC reaches deal which will likely lift macros more tmrw.

Boris Johnson has been released from hospital too, which will also buoy the Markets. In his address to the Nation, Bojo channels his inner Churchill, while looking like Margaret Thatcher...

Cheers!

 

[PeterJA]

Anyone who believes new things will always work the first time probably shouldn't be investing because they will be disappointed more often than not, and likely sell at a loss. Investors should always ask "is progress being made", "did they learn from their failures". If the answer is yes, then buy more.

@JRP3 is a longtime TSLA investor and defender of Tesla from falsehoods. He just doesn't let the truth of Elon's errors get lost in admiration for the man. I respect and agree with that.

 

[dw4ngg]

OPEC reaches deal which will likely lift macros more tmrw.

Maybe I jumped the gun, futures starting out moderately red this afternoon. Tesla doesn’t always follow macros though, so hopefully there’s some divergence tmrw if tmrw ultimately ends up red for broader markets

 

[ZachF]

LA without cars/pollution: (a city fit for Angels)

CH33RS!

P.S. 5 of the top 10 Ten Cleanest Air Cities in the World right now are in the USA. And Los Angeles isn't even one of the 10 best.

P.P.S. The No. 1 "Cleanest Air" distinction goes to Salt Lake City, with an outstanding AQI score of "1". SUPER CLEAN, near PERFECT!

Can't wait to see this in all cities and towns without the need for a pandemic lockdown!

 

[ggr]

There's a simpler explanation: Private jets are FREE for businesses (or rather, 100% tax deductible at the expense of the public):

Private jets receive ludicrous tax breaks that hurt the environment | The Economist, March 2019

"Donald Trump's tax reform allowed individuals and companies to write off 100% of the cost of a new or used private jet against their federal taxes."​

I don't see the GOP handing out free EVs anytime in the near future.

Your take on this is a bit misleading. Firstly, the government doesn't fund 100% of anything. It allows you (the person or the company) to count the cost as an expense. For someone who makes all their money in wage income and is well into the top tax brackets, that means the government will pay a bit over 50%. That's about as bad as it gets. For a company like Amazon, whose tax bill is only about 1.3% (just read that in another post, not claiming its correctness) of their profit, they'll save about $130,000 on a $10M bizjet. The rest of the money comes out of their corporate accounts.

 

[JRP3]

Anyone who believes new things will always work the first time probably shouldn't be investing because they will be disappointed more often than not, and likely sell at a loss.

Of course. I'm just pointing out that criticizing Elon's projected timelines is justified, as he himself has admitted.

I would not assume Elon's errors about the timing of FSD will continue indefinitely.

I've always assumed he'll get it right, eventually.

 

[ggr]

Here's some more history:
The first three Falcon 1 launches blew up.
The first several Falcon 9 landings crashed.

Incorrect. The first three Falcon 1 launches failed to perform their missions, but only the first one "blew up" in any sense of the word.
Falcon 1 - Wikipedia

And what do you mean by "crashed"? They (the first several) all performed their primary missions. If you mean that they didn't recover the first stages, well, you'd have to say that every other orbital rocket in history also crashed.

 

[Yamantasdivar]

I've always assumed he'll get it right, eventually.

At least he stopped saying “3 months maybe, 6 months definitely”

 

[jerry33]

Of course. I'm just pointing out that criticizing Elon's projected timelines is justified, as he himself has admitted.

Of course. He has to set some kind of timeline, and making it aggressive helps create a sense of urgency.

 

[juanmedina]

Is this forum populated with people unable to control themselves? Why should it be anyone's job to go clean up off topic posts? Good communities are created when members are respectful and mods have very little to do.

Karen and Fact Checking chose to leave. They weren't vacationed or banned.

I like Karen a lot and she was really helpful and she would answer my option noob questions but I think is kind of weak that they left because a mod. I have my dealings with mods in other car forums and I could care less... I would just make sure that I would not get enough points to get banned lol

 

[Stretch2727]

Can't wait to see this in all cities and towns without the need for a pandemic lockdown!

It will be even better than this. Gasoline sales are down about 50%. Here in NY/NJ beautiful clear sky but I would guesstimate traffic about 30-50% of normal.

Weekly U.S. Product Supplied of Finished Motor Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)

This graph is pretty dramatic.

Let's hope this accelerates the move to a sustainable future.

 

[fdutra1]

Mark Melnick live right know,,, looks like he finally got it!

 

[MC3OZ]

At least he stopped saying “3 months maybe, 6 months definitely”

Initially I think he had to say something and was aggressive rather than conservative...

Once that aggressive timeline is public, it is hard to walk back. He is trying to be a bit more conservative now..

In spite of the badly wrong timeline, they are making progress, that is more apparent now comparing AP2 to AP1.

IMO it is very hard to give a timeline, until it is working or very close to working.

Elon definitely could have handled it better, but the end result is more important than the process, once it works, no one will care how we got there...

 

[PeterJA]

Incorrect. The first three Falcon 1 launches failed to perform their missions, but only the first one "blew up" in any sense of the word.
Falcon 1 - Wikipedia

Thanks. I misremembered Donna Singh's story about the third mission:

...so our first stage literally rear ended our second stage immediately after we had tried to separate the two sections of the vehicle. It was a devastating emotional experience.

Dolly Singh's answer to What is it like to work with/for Elon Musk? - Quora

Great story, BTW. Informative about Elon's leadership.

And what do you mean by "crashed"? They (the first several) all performed their primary missions. If you mean that they didn't recover the first stages, well, you'd have to say that every other orbital rocket in history also crashed.

LOL, I said the landings crashed. Other rockets didn't attempt to land.