Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[CorneliusXX]

It's the wall street consensus that gets sent out every quarter a week or two before the P&D

This was for Q1

Has the gap in delivery estimates between wall street and "enthusiast" analysts (for lack of a better term - meaning people working on this site and youtube, etc) ever been this wide. Most estimates I've read from Tesla fans on this board and elsewhere is somewhere around the 85k mark or higher.

Perhaps the street will raise their estimates at the last minute to try and engineer a miss.

 

[Unpilot]

Perhaps the street will raise their estimates at the last minute to try and engineer a miss.

That's a safe bet.... blood suckers gunna blood suck.

 

[CorneliusXX]

OT - has anyone researched liquid air energy storage?

World First Commercial Liquid-Air Energy Storage Facility Begin Construction This Year

At first glance it looks like it could be a cheap effective way to store large quantities of energy for a price i think it would be difficult for batteries to match. It also appears to use quite mature technologies in terms of refrigeration and turbine energy generation. There appears to be no limit on the ability to scale the solution given the generic components being used.

This makes CRYObatteries the only long-duration energy storage solution available today that can offer multiple gigawatt-hours of storage at a cost-effective price of £110/MWh ($137/MWh) for a 10-hour, 200 MW/2 GWh system

Chemical batteries have advantages in speed of response, but this could be a better solution to grid scale energy storage.

It appears to be early days in the product life cycle, but definitely something I'll keep an eye on. There's no mention of the efficiency of the system.

If it works as advertised it could be a great opportunity for Tesla/spacex too. They have the skills with pressurised containers, low temperature materials and heat exchangers that presumably could be easily transferred to this product. It would also align with Tesla's mission to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.

 

[jerry33]

What is the best way to fight back?.

Buy and hold. Buy more when you can. Don't use options. Don't even allow your account to use options. Anything to do with options in your account allows the broker to lend shares.

 

[willow_hiller]

Tesla releases new solar panel, slashes prices - Electrek



Was there any speculation on the source of these panels?

Imported from China seems likely.

They included a product sheet in my system quote. The panels are Hanwha Q.PEAK DUO G6 345.

Some are manufactured in Jincheon, South Korea, and some are manufactured in Dalton, Georgia.

 

[pyromatter]

 

[Artful Dodger]

08:00 a.m. Whistle:

• TSLA share price: $953.36
• NASDAQ Pre-market Vol: 53,338

Note: almost 2x yesterday's Pre-market volume by 08:00 ET

Cheers!

 

[j6Lpi429@3j]

But the quarter ends in less than a week. Is it normal to go from order to delivery in 6 days?

If you want a volkswagen diesel, you can probably have one this very nanosecond! They probably throw in a free bottle of bubbly for buying one!

 

[SatsumaKing]

OT - has anyone researched liquid air energy storage?

World First Commercial Liquid-Air Energy Storage Facility Begin Construction This Year

At first glance it looks like it could be a cheap effective way to store large quantities of energy for a price i think it would be difficult for batteries to match. It also appears to use quite mature technologies in terms of refrigeration and turbine energy generation. There appears to be no limit on the ability to scale the solution given the generic components being used.



Chemical batteries have advantages in speed of response, but this could be a better solution to grid scale energy storage.

It appears to be early days in the product life cycle, but definitely something I'll keep an eye on. There's no mention of the efficiency of the system.

If it works as advertised it could be a great opportunity for Tesla/spacex too. They have the skills with pressurised containers, low temperature materials and heat exchangers that presumably could be easily transferred to this product. It would also align with Tesla's mission to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.

I saw this news before since its developed in the UK. Initially due to the scalability and cost I viewed it as competition. However, as an engineer and scientist, the drawback of such a system to me seems to be efficiency. Your essentially taking something quite diffuse (i.e air) and using energy (probably from renewable sources such as solar or wind) to compress or chill it down into a more confined density or pressure. So there is quite a lot of energy used in the chilling or compression stage. The energy is stored in that state, but over the long term, don't you need to keep supplying energy to the storage system to keep the air cold or compressed, that also requires energy. When you need to use the stored energy, you have to let the air heat up or expand and pass through a turbine to generate power (so not a fast response system, delay due to heating rate). Again there are system energy losses when you pass the air through the turbine to generate power used to say charge an electric car.

Comparing this to just taking the solar or wind energy and charging the car, you can see how such a system is probably a lot less efficient than battery storage.

These kind of solution are for a world where batteries are not at scale. I have contact with people in UK management or government positions who give out funding to say hydrogen research and schemes like this liquid air storage etc. One of the rationals, even though they know about Tesla, is that they think no way can batteries do everything or cover all demand. There has to be other methods. Its also about appearing to be cutting edge and having unique technology solutions, even if what you do isn't the best option.

The flaw is that it takes the past or current scale of batteries and extrapolates forward. If Tesla are about to announce Terra watt capacity this year, what is battery capacity going to be in 10, 20, or 30 years. Its a totally different ball game, and over time, efficiency matters, so the most efficient and fastest response systems will win for grid management. That is battery storage.

 

[Prunesquallor]

OT - has anyone researched liquid air energy storage?

World First Commercial Liquid-Air Energy Storage Facility Begin Construction This Year

At first glance it looks like it could be a cheap effective way to store large quantities of energy for a price i think it would be difficult for batteries to match. It also appears to use quite mature technologies in terms of refrigeration and turbine energy generation. There appears to be no limit on the ability to scale the solution given the generic components being used.



Chemical batteries have advantages in speed of response, but this could be a better solution to grid scale energy storage.

It appears to be early days in the product life cycle, but definitely something I'll keep an eye on. There's no mention of the efficiency of the system.

If it works as advertised it could be a great opportunity for Tesla/spacex too. They have the skills with pressurised containers, low temperature materials and heat exchangers that presumably could be easily transferred to this product. It would also align with Tesla's mission to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.

Interesting. If I understand it correctly, the idea is to use cheap or intermittent power (hopefully green) to liquefy and store air. When power generation is desired, run the liquid air through a heat exchanger (ambient air or water) and use the expanding gas to drive a gas turbine and electric generator.

Seems clean. The only possible downsides compared to batteries I can see are:
1) Efficiency. I failed thermogoddamics, but refrigerant systems efficiency is something to consider. Combine that with the turbogenerator efficiency.
2) Complexity. You’re back to the pressurized gas-turbomachinery-dynamo combo. Noise, maintenance, etc. Sounds like the power production part would be similar to a NG peaker. No combustion or exhaust issues, however.
3) Cost. Part of the attractiveness of Megapack-type systems is the rapid and relatively cheap deployment.

 

[elasalle]

007
@TrendTrader007

$tsla i am turning short term bearish
possibly time to take some money off the table



$tsla and $compq looking awfully toppy

Based on Charts (Technicals) or Based on News ?

 

[TrendTrader007]

$tsla decided not to sell canceled all my sell orders staying long

 

[elasalle]

End of Quarter Shuffling. (Profit taking with Surge in Markets).

FED's got your back

CV's got an ally in US - Stupidity (quote from Florida Lady - I don't wear a mask for the same reason I don't wear underwear, they gotta breathe". )

 

[elasalle]

Total of those receiving unemployment benefits falls below 20 million

Jobless claims totaled 1.48 million last week as unemployment related to the coronavirus pandemic remained stubbornly high.

Economists surveyed by Dow Jones had been expecting 1.35 million claims.


While the weekly numbers remained high and were worse than expectations for the second straight week, the total of those receiving benefits continued to fall. Total recipients, or continuing claims, fell by 767,000 to 19.52 million

 

[TrendTrader007]

Based on Charts (Technicals) or Based on News ?

i got freaked out my potential double top candles in nasdaq last night and almost lost my nerve but this AM after 7 hrs of sleep decided to take my chances with the moving averages

 

[Artful Dodger]

Breaking News (12 min ago)

U.S. Initial Jobless Claims Fall To 1.48M, Continuing Claims Edge Below 20M

 

[Singuy]

i got freaked out my potential double top candles in nasdaq last night and almost lost my nerve but this AM after 7 hrs of sleep decided to take my chances with the moving averages

You are literally taking years off your life worrying about this BS. Aren't you a couple of hundred million rich from this already? Go buy an island and chill before getting a stroke one day. The rest of us are not this wealthy therefore grinding through the gauntlet of Tesla exuberance and pain.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Interesting. If I understand it correctly, the idea is to use cheap or intermittent power (hopefully green) to liquefy and store air. When power generation is desired, run the liquid air through a heat exchanger (ambient air or water) and use the expanding gas to drive a gas turbine and electric generator.

Seems clean. The only possible downsides compared to batteries I can see are:
1) Efficiency. I failed thermogoddamics, but refrigerant systems efficiency is something to consider. Combine that with the turbogenerator efficiency.
2) Complexity. You’re back to the pressurized gas-turbomachinery-dynamo combo. Noise, maintenance, etc. Sounds like the power production part would be similar to a NG peaker. No combustion or exhaust issues, however.
3) Cost. Part of the attractiveness of Megapack-type systems is the rapid and relatively cheap deployment.

No, phase-change materials are NOT viable alternatives to chemical energy storage. As an example, look at the heat released as water goes from a gas to a liquid. If you could capture and use all of that energy (which you can't), there's still only about 92 Wh/kg available there, and that's with ignoring the mass of any machinery.

Telsa's chemical storage bty's are about TRIPLE that theorical value, and that's a real-world product with demonstrated 80%+ round-trip energy efficiency. If there was a better 1st-principles solution in the world of chemistry or physics, you can be confident that Tesla would already be doing it.

Pumped hydro storage is a better alternative for large storage projects than phase change materials, but even they are still no where near as efficient as Tesla Powerpacks for grid/home applications.

 

[Prunesquallor]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/25/tesla-plant-firings/

Tesla gave workers permission to stay home rather than risk getting covid-19. Then it sent termination notices.

...to two workers.

 

[mongo]

OT

No, phase-change materials are NOT viable alternatives to chemical energy storage. As an example, look at the heat released as water goes from a gas to a liquid. If you could capture and use all of that energy (which you can't), there's still only about 92 Wh/kg available there, and that's with ignoring the mass of any machinery.

Telsa's chemical storage bty's are about TRIPLE that theorical value, and that's a real-world product.

Pumped hydro storage is a better alternative for large storage projects than phase change materials, but even they are still no where near as efficient as Tesla Powerpacks for grid/home applications.

They are not getting the energy from phase change, they are using that for an increase in density. Energy storage comes from gas compression.