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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Sacconaghi...'move to $1k is more likely than a move to $2k'

They asked him 'why the downgrade now?'
Sacconaghi: "We wanted to wait for Q2 results and it justified our research" ?????????

Pretty much they initialized a short position and has to justify it.

He essentially admitted he feels he has to apply the same metrics to an innovative young disruptor of multiple industries, as he would to any other company. He expressed it as though it would become his excuse in case Tesla shares keep rising.

Again this appears to be a case of an analyst believing his rather limited valuation methodology properly dictates to investors what they should be paying for a stock. Actually, what we want to learn is what other investors likely will be willing to pay for a stock a year from now. If that is a challenge that makes him uncomfortable, he should not be analyzing Tesla. :rolleyes:
 
At least part of the amazing price discount of today is a direct consequence of the amazing and well paid job of Tony Sacconaghi of Bernstein, probably one of the last survivals of an endangered specie. These sell side analysts are just giving us temporary discounts to the stock price before being inexorably substituted and outperformed by a mere algorithm. It was historically the case of Mr Tamberrino of GS, Mr Lovallo and the amazing analysts of BofA Merrill Lynch, and the vast majority of the sell side analysts of the banking / brokerage firms. I’m so thankful of their amazing job. Keeping down the stock price to justify their poor job wasn’t easy but I took advantage of that every single time. So thank you and keep up with the poor work :D
 
Standard & Poor's | Americas

Providing text below from the announcement.

  • Despite the closure of its main factory in Fremont, Calif., for nearly half of the second quarter, Tesla Inc. continued to improve profitability and cash flow generation. Moreover, we think the company's competitive position continues to strengthen with improved cost absorption on larger volumes, higher operational efficiency, and process automation.
  • Consequently, we are raising our issuer credit rating on Tesla to 'B+' from 'B-'.
  • We are also raising our issue-level ratings on its unsecured debt to 'B+' from 'B-'.
  • The stable outlook reflects our view that Tesla's competitive position remains solid and its credit metrics will stay in line with our expectations.
NEW YORK (S&P Global Ratings) July 28, 2020—S&P Global Ratings today took the rating actions listed above.

Tesla's performance in Q2 shows improving profitability and cash flow generation, benefiting its competitive position. Despite U.S. light-vehicle sales being down about 35% year-over-year in Q2, Tesla's deliveries were down only 5%. Also, to offset the financial impact of suspended operations, the company took actions to reduce its costs, helping it reach a GAAP operating margin of 5.4% and $418 million in free operating cash flow.

Though recent improvements were partially driven by an increase in regulatory credit revenue (which accounted for nearly 30% of its automotive gross profit in the first half of 2020), we expect ongoing improvements in product and manufacturing costs, driven by Model Y and China-made Model 3, and improved aftermarket software and connectivity revenue. This should help the company sustain EBITDA margins over 10% over the next two years, which should support improved cash flow metrics.

Specifically, we see debt to EBITDA in the range of 3.5x to 4.0x in 2020 and moving below 3.5x in 2021. We also view the company's cash flow generation capacity as improving; this, and the $8.6 billion of cash on its balance sheet at the end of Q2, should support greater financial flexibility to fund the expansion of its manufacturing footprint and address its maturing convertible debt over the next 12 months.

The stable outlook reflects our view that Tesla's financial performance will stay in line with our expectations, namely debt to EBITDA below 4x and positive free operating cash flow (FOCF) generation, even as the company expands its manufacturing footprint around the world.

We could consider raising the ratings if the company continues to ramp up its production of the Model 3 and Y globally, with consistent operational improvements, such that EBITDA margins remain over 10%. We would also expect demand for Tesla's electric vehicles to grow, even as the number of EV models from competing automakers proliferate. Alternatively, we would look to financial metrics as confirming Tesla's strengthening market position, such as increasing gross margins and a debt to EBITDA ratio of below 3.0x on a sustained basis.

We could lower the rating if the company encountered problems expanding its manufacturing footprint, if demand for electric vehicles did not match the newly installed capacity, or competition from traditional automakers intensified and drew customers away from buying Tesla's vehicles. Also we could lower the ratings if the debt-to-EBITDA ratio exceeded 4.5x on a sustained basis.

We expect governance and social risk factors to remain high and have an increasing influence on Tesla's credit quality. Its environmental risks are minimal relative to other automakers, given its focus on fully electric vehicles and ambitions to expand aggressively into heavy-duty trucks and energy storage markets.

Governance risks will remain a bigger negative for credit quality than environmental and social risks, given the risk that CEO Elon Musk violates securities laws on fair disclosure and the recent high rate of senior executive turnover. We view the effectiveness of the committee that oversees Mr. Musk's communications as poor, given the rising risks from current and future litigation (as demonstrated by the 2018 subpoenas from the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission and related investigations from the U.S. Department of Justice). We view key-man risk as very high for Tesla, given Mr. Musk's dominant role in the company. In late 2018, the settlement with the SEC, under which Mr. Musk resigned as chairman of the board of directors but remained CEO, averted a significant disruption to Tesla's operations.

Social risks will intensify into the next decade as potential accidents, fires, and cybersecurity breaches could increase the risk of product liability, government scrutiny, and further regulation. Until those risks abate, in our view, Tesla's progress toward improving safety through the successful deployment of its autopilot technology will at best remain credit neutral for the foreseeable future.

From an environmental risk perspective, we think Tesla has an advantage over competitors given its battery and powertrain technology, the superior range per kilowatt hour (kWh, as rated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) of its vehicles compared with upcoming launches, and ability to improve vehicle performance through over-the-air software updates.

Given its high reliance on batteries and other customized components, Tesla's limited and often single-source supply chain exposes it to multiple potential sources of delivery failure or component shortages. This happened in 2012 and 2016 in connection with production delays for the Model S and Model X.
 
Elon said as much on the earnings call. if these are real limits, I have no idea.

I interpreted Elon’s comments as meaning that Tesla has an incoming need for massive nickel supply, and while there is plenty available at current demand levels, current available supply will quickly be overwhelmed once high volume nickel-battery products start rolling out of Tesla factories (Semi).
 
What argument? It's at $274B. That's entirely appropriate and maybe even a bit on the high side.

There's always going to be noise, but that's all it is at this point. 2016 is long behind us now, Elon's on cruise control.

I don’t see this as the flow of traffic.


I see it as a river of money, flowing from Exxon/Mobil to the Middle East. Combing renewable power and electric vehicles captures this revenue stream. I have not bought gasoline in years, Tesla is undervalued.
 
I’ve been weeding out colon stories and jokes all evening. Can we drop that shitty subject?!

I prefer not to post in my mod role this often, but lately this thread has been meandering aimlessly... :confused:

Are you sure a high noise/signal ratio isn't beneficial to the mission?

It makes people work to figure out what's really happening in Tesla land! ;)

I'm only half joking here.
 
I don’t see this as the flow of traffic.


I see it as a river of money, flowing from Exxon/Mobil to the Middle East. Combing renewable power and electric vehicles captures this revenue stream. I have not bought gasoline in years, Tesla is undervalued.

But don't ignore the economic activity all that auto exhaust has on our health care sector of our economy.

Do you really want such a critical industry to have to shrink it's economic footprint? ;) /s
 
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As Abraham Lincoln once stated "don't believe everything you read on TMC" and you know this how?

It isn't reflected in the price of nickel.

There is currently a small surplus of nickel and lithium. Not enough for an extra 7M long range BEVs.

For Tesla to go from 500k cars per year to 5M will require more mines and chemical processing. Everybody else from startups to legacy OEMs will also be buying more nickel and lithium in the coming years, or their battery suppliers will.

That is why Elon made a shout out to nickel miners.
 
There is currently a small surplus of nickel and lithium. Not enough for an extra 7M long range BEVs.

For Tesla to go from 500k cars per year to 5M will require more mines and chemical processing. Everybody else from startups to legacy OEMs will also be buying more nickel and lithium in the coming years, or their battery suppliers will.

That is why Elon made a shout out to nickel miners.
I hope the shout out is cover for what he's really doing.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: StealthP3D
how many here are spaceX investors as well as Tesla? (unfortunately i am not)

curious....
if one was lucky enough to get a crack at it, to what ratio would you reduce your overall TSLA position within your portfolio to attain SpaceX?

on a level of 1 to 3,
1 being, skip it and wish you had the money to put in spacex, prob kick yourself in the ass down the road, for not doing it


2 being, do whatever you have to do to try and maneuver your way into spacex

3 being sell the family and scorch everything on earth for spacex shares at any valuation and any fees

what would you do?
 
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After-action Report: Tue, Jul 28, 2020: (Full-Day's Trading)

Headline: "Bears scan 10-Q; Drama ensues"

Traded: $23,968,336,756.50 ($23.97 B)
Volume: 15,813,970
VWAP: $1,515.64

Closing SP / VWAP: 97.39%
(TSLA closed BELOW today's Avg SP)
Mkt Cap: TSLA / TM = $273.852B / $172.884B = 159.40%​

TSLA 1-mth Moving Avg Market Cap: $265.80
TSLA 6-mth Moving Avg Market Cap: $157.94
Nota Bene: Mkt Cap adjusted due to inc. in TSLA Shares Outstanding (185.48M)

'Short' Report:

FINRA Short/Total Volume = 41.5% (44th Percentile rank Shorting)
FINRA Volume / Total NASDAQ Vol = 55.3% (56th Percentile rank FINRA Reporting)
FINRA Short Exempt Volume was 1.71% of Short Volume (55th Percentile Rank)​

TSLA - SUMMARY TABLE - 2020-07-28.png


Comment: "More proof that Bears do *sugar* in the woods"

View all Lodger's After-Action Reports

Cheers!