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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Yup. Also the value of each additional stored kwh decreases as more storage capacity is installed in that part of the power grid.

In a grid like the National Electiricity Martket (NEM) in Australia the first mover value opportunity for batteries is in the ancillary services, particularly the Frequency Control Ancillary Services (FCAS) market. This is where the grid operator pays generators to maintain the close frequency tolerances required for the grid. It's this market where the Hornsdale (Tesla/Neoen) Power Reserve has earned a lot of its revenue. It's also a market that has been traditionally designed for slower acting coal and gas generators so that the extra fast response that a battery can provide isn't properly valued. In a more modern market design, batteries should be paid even more for FCAS services because their fast action means that less energy overall is required to maintain stable grid frequency. There is a limited market requirement for FCAS so there is a relatively finite amount of value that can be extracted for additional battery systems.

Arbitrage across fluctuations in energy market pricing appears to be a less lucrative revenue stream for batteries. (eg this article puts it at 12% of battery revenue: Big batteries earn $20 million over three months) However the continued interest in new big and bigger battery installations in Australia shows that there is still plenty of revenue and value to be captured for additional batteries coming into the market. It would appear that we have a very very long way to go before we reach a market saturation point for batteries in our energy markets.
 
Warning: Incoherent ramblings ahead from someone who doesn’t know anything about the subject.

Tesla has enlisted 10 banks for the secondary. If you want to keep your campfire going but don’t want to get it out of hand, you don’t want two people throwing a bucket of water on the fire at the same moment. This is in line with the provision that only one bank can act on a given day (when Tesla instructs it to do so). So, we have banks for ten days. 10 days is also the max time that S&P give notification for, and given the number of stools that have to be purchased, a long period makes sense.

If we include 21 September, which is a Monday, there are 10 working days starting tomorrow. So, S&P is to announce today.

Sorry for wasting your time but I did give you a warning. Don’t read on.

if the S&P wants the SP even lower, they could announce the inclusion of for example Zoom. Not including Tesla will drop the SP further. Then announce the inclusion anyway.

I’m not sorry. I told you not to read on!
 
Utilities don't need to. Usually Peaker plants are always the most expensive plants to maintain. they would be operational anywhere from 20-100 hours a year. If we completely disrupt even just these peaker plants with the megapacks, it would be a massive change to the grid and a great financial step forward. Forward thinking or not, money talks.
Yes, and the big profit margin for the peaker plants makes the utilities want to keep them.
 
Oh yeah man, come to Germany

In that case, the price target is too low :p.
I would be very much looking forward to the battery day to understand how fast they can scale up their mega packs. We need to remember that the Australian battery that costed around multi million euros was paid back within 3 years. If Tesla has figured out production of these mega packs, we are in for a crazy upwards in revenues.

Also, I prognose that the meeting with Diess could have been also about the mega packs since we know that Volkswagen is using those at their charger stations.

VW might be using Powerpacks at chargers and most likely not Megapacks!
 
Apologies to @Artful Dodger - I was way behind on the thread when I saw @CorneliusXX 's post and did not know you had demolished it so well already. His post was so bad I immediately hit reply which trying to catch up on the thread. Truth is I work for a living and have a life so if I always waited to catch up before replying to something I would never be able to reply. While your post had everything necessary for @CorneliusXX to understand is error, he doesn't get it so I'm giving it another go:

Points in time reference are NOT arbitrary. You happened to choose a point in time that was basically the end of a very long range-bound trading period filled with many significant but underappreciated events and shortly before a number of new significant events. Corporate events such as earnings, new products, acquisitions, patents, new factories coming on line etc. are a thing which is why time reference points are not arbitrary.

I think we can all agree that market prices will fluctuate, even doubling or halving over short periods of time. The question is really whether those fluctuations represent mispricing or not. On that matter you chose to say:

Your analysis above assumes that the price was fairly valued 12 months ago because (you think) Tesla increased in value only 3 to 4 times but the stock price grew much more so you argued that the stock must be mispriced. You were clearly arguing for a massively overpriced stock. Many probably could agree with a much smaller level of overpricing (myself included) but very few on this board could or should agree with your view of massive overpricing. Most of us think TSLA has been dramatically under priced for a very long time and that's why we disagree with you.

I made no claim to whether the stock was mispriced one way or another, only that it is difficult to believe the fundamental value of the company moved the same amount as the stock price over the last year. My argument is that sentiment can drive the stock price wildly in the short term (as seen in the last year) and that should be considered. Regardless of whether it was mispriced last year - the market decided it was worth 10x more from one year to another when it's a hard argument that the fundamentals of the company changed 10x within that same 1 year. If it was wildly undervalued last year due to market sentiment it can be wildly undervalued again due to sentiment. The only reason I used the last year is because it is the most recent contrast between movements in stock price and moves in fundamental valuation. I could have used the prior 5 years and said Tesla 10x revenue while the stock price remained flat. Either case works for the comment on sentiment.

Sadly my comment on the impacts of sentiment seem to have been morphed in misprinting arguments. Congrats on demolishing an argument I didn't make.
 
I made no claim to whether the stock was mispriced one way or another, only that it is difficult to believe the fundamental value of the company moved the same amount as the stock price over the last year.... Congrats on demolishing an argument I didn't make.
Well, nobody has ever claimed that the fundamental value of Tesla has increased by the same amount as the stock price over the last year. So... congrats on demolishing an argument made by nobody anywhere.

The notion that a stock can be mispriced, often over a long period of time, is also not something anybody is arguing against. So just who is it you are talking to? Yourself?
 
Well, nobody has ever claimed that the fundamental value of Tesla has increased by the same amount as the stock price over the last year. So... congrats on demolishing an argument made by nobody anywhere.

The notion that a stock can be mispriced, often over a long period of time, is also not something anybody is arguing against. So just who is it you are talking to? Yourself?
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I really believe that S&P announcement WILL happen any hour/day/....soon before Battery Day. Be patient!
Elon is way too silent on Twitter if S&P decided to ignore $TSLA. All those ambigious tweets....Elon knows addition is coming!

We're now in the eye of the storm where it's calm and peaceful.... In this phase, the mouse decides to wear a helmet to make the same mistake again at the trap... :eek:

My conviction: $TSLA will hit ATH above $600 this month!

If not, Elon will redefine on Twitter the meaning of S&P like he did with SEC o_O

(Disclaimer: I read way too much into Elon's tweets ):D
 
I really believe that S&P announcement WILL happen any hour/day/....soon before Battery Day. Be patient!
Elon is way too silent on Twitter if S&P decided to ignore $TSLA. All those ambigious tweets....Elon knows addition is coming!

We're now in the eye of the storm where it's calm and peaceful.... In this phase, the mouse decides to wear a helmet to make the same mistake again at the trap... :eek:

My conviction: $TSLA will hit ATH above $600 this month!

If not, Elon will redefine on Twitter the meaning of S&P like he did with SEC o_O

(Disclaimer: I read way too much into Elon's tweets ):D

Not only has he not tweeted about it, he hasn’t even liked one of the thousands of tweets about S&P snubbing TSLA. Very out of character for Elon.
 
They haven't, and it likely means there is enough US/Canada demand to meet current production.

They have said it will not ship but only produce at GF Berlin when it is up and running. Last weeks rumor of a batch of Ys coming to Europe likely for testing/service training/homologation made me think about this again but so far that is the official statement. I´ll add a source when I found it..

EDIT: here you go: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1248132730614939653?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Q: When do you deliver model y in Switzerland?
A (Elon): In about a year. Would come from Giga Berlin.

Elon Musk links Tesla Model Y release in Europe to Gigafactory Berlin - Electrek
 
They have said it will not ship but only produce at GF Berlin when it is up and running. Last weeks rumor of a batch of Ys coming to Europe likely for testing/service training/homologation made me think about this again but so far that is the official statement. I´ll add a source when I found it..
I recall reading that too. No wonder the Germans are working so hard to get the factory completed.