Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[EV forever]

I've never traded anything after-hours that I can recall. Fidelity certainly shows after-hours as an option on the sell tickets, so it's available. Can someone confirm I'll be able to sell TSLA shares after-hours from my Fidelity IRA account?

Relax! It'll only be a small handful, maybe a bit more if we spike to something astronomical.

I just got my fidelity IRA, Roth IRA and Individual investment accounts all approved for after hours trading last night. It is only a disclaimer and terms and conditions to sign off on to get the after-hours trading unlocked

 

[MXWing]

Not advice!!! But you sound like you have a lot of them. I've seen and used a technique of spreading the risk up and down the price range and time duration. So instead of having say 10 700 calls, have 3 680s, 3 700s, and 4 720s (not linear in price, hence having the most at a higher strike price.).

I do this with time as well, but in this case, I'm not sure what's going to happen at that exact time (after hours on the 18th through before trading on the 21st). If there is a spike at 4pm and after hours on the 18th, and most people are predicting a drop after inclusion, having the options that expire the next week (12/24 due to Christmas) might be a detriment.

Also, if I didn't use the right language to say "Not Advice!!!", please let me know so I can correct it. It's crazy that the world we live in we have to give all these disclaimers for normal folks not to get blasted, and yet if you have a lot of money, it seems you can do no wrong and get out of anything. Oh well, not to get OT!

I have straight naked calls, butterflies and vertical spreads. Those are a small percentage of my position.

I am glad you are confident in your position as I am in mine. I just don't want to see anyone hurt. It's their choice in the end but I am detecting some hesitancy so I feel I have a duty to help if I can and if they will listen.

Keeping your position in shares is objectively safer - I don't think anyone can argue this? You can hedge that with OTM covered calls in the event of a drop, up to the numbers of shares and price you are willing to let go at a fixed value.

I am giving advice. But it's free advice with no performance guarantees.

 

[StealthP3D]

I spent time reading about the Nasdaq cross yesterday. I can't believe we are discussing DIVIDENDS instead of this.

This may be news to you, but this thread has never been limited to a single narrow topic at a time. It's not an "either/or" situation.

That's right, you can present or discuss any relevant topic you like, just like any participant.

Pretty mind-blowing, eh?

 

[Todd Burch]

This slip turns his analysis into *Züge* (rhymes with sugar).

(Thinks for several minutes)....booger?

 

[StealthP3D]

I actually became pretty bullish looking at the dynamics.

I wouldn't have most of my net worth in the market if I were not bullish on it. My point was simply that market risk varies and leverage should be avoided during the riskiest times. It's not atypical for the biggest risks to be present when the market outlook is the most bullish.

 

[Criscmt]

Benchmark funds:

1. Severely under-weight now, many with zero weightage, going by Bloomberg
2. Not seemingly accumulating yet, going by volumes
3. Under pressure for window dressing immediately, being end of year/quarter
4. Their size/need being bigger than indexed 120m shares

Doesn't this mean a very high chance that we will see buying pressure even after Dec-21, and before year/quarter ends Dec-31?
Perhaps @FrankSG covered this in his blog post, which I feel foolish to not yet make time to have gone through yet, given the awesome job he does

@Artful Dodger @generalenthu @Right_Said_Fred

 

[Buckminster]

If Biden extends tax credits for Tesla, would they be retrospective?

 

[StealthP3D]

Agreed, this does seem to be an important topic of discussion.

Hardly important, IMO. Discuss it all you want, but it's simply a mechanism for improving liquidity and trade execution at the beginning and ending of every session without distorting the price too much (from what it would be if those orders had more time to play out). It's a very technical and esoteric subject that is primarily of interest to high-frequency traders trying to skim small profits and has very limited relevance to most investors. The fact that TSLA is going through Index inclusion doesn't change my opinion.

 

[H Mak]

I missed the frantic close on friday because I was on a zoom call with my friends, getting drunk. But when I checked I discovered I now qualify for membership of that $pecial club

Anyway who's excited about tomorrow?

 

[vikings123]

Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately, I have a boat load of 12/18 700c. I’m really nervous about those, because it’s basically a large YOLO bet. I sold shares to buy them, so if I don’t sell them, or they finish OTM by even $0.01, I will be screwed out of a lot of TSLA’s future appreciation. Since the MM have a great ability to keep the SP below max pain or whatever price they want on Friday expiration’s, I’m super nervous these will expire worthless at 4:00 pm with SP=699.98. Then after hours and Monday, the SP will explode.

I cannot put in a market orders on options, and I cannot put in trades quickly on my platform. How can I prepare for the last 5-15 min of trading without losing it all? I’ve put in some limit orders at $20, $40, $60, $100, and $200/contract. Too high? Too low? Any advice in advance would be greatly appreciated.

Why would you wait until the last minute? Is your plan to exercise those calls? Do you have the necessary capital?

You need to have an exit plan for those call options. Maybe think about rolling some into LEAPS?

 

[MABMAB]

One week left to enter:
Contest: What price will TSLA be added at?

 

[Carl Raymond]

DIVIDENDS ARE NOT HAPPENING THIS DECADE.

Agreed. But Knightshade suggested “never”.

Not happening ever, disagree, because it would require infinite growth on a finite planet.

 

[Mich]

Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately, I have a boat load of 12/18 700c. I’m really nervous about those, because it’s basically a large YOLO bet. I sold shares to buy them, so if I don’t sell them, or they finish OTM by even $0.01, I will be screwed out of a lot of TSLA’s future appreciation. Since the MM have a great ability to keep the SP below max pain or whatever price they want on Friday expiration’s, I’m super nervous these will expire worthless at 4:00 pm with SP=699.98. Then after hours and Monday, the SP will explode.

I cannot put in a market orders on options, and I cannot put in trades quickly on my platform. How can I prepare for the last 5-15 min of trading without losing it all? I’ve put in some limit orders at $20, $40, $60, $100, and $200/contract. Too high? Too low? Any advice in advance would be greatly appreciated.

Be careful because you don't have the liquidy to buy the shares! Interactive Brokers automatically liquitates call option contracts on the day of expiry *4 hours* before close if you don't have the cash to excese! So don't worry about the last minutes ;-)

 

[MXWing]

Agreed. But Knightshade suggested “never”.

Not happening ever, disagree, because it would require infinite growth on a finite planet.

I think we are discussing semantics. 20 years to me is effectively never. Too much can happen in that time. Tesla could be broken up into separate companies at that time. It could be by choice, or not by choice. We don't know.

What we know objectively, is growth companies are smashing dividend/value companies by large margins.

There's so many verticals to invest in, that it's objectively dumb for Elon to give cash to shareholders.

I dislike stock buy backs as those are shady and manipulative, but those create more value for shareholders than dividends.

 

[Words of HABIT]

I have straight naked calls, butterflies and vertical spreads. Those are a small percentage of my position.

Mods, put @MXWing in the penatly box. This is a family site and sex talk should not be tolerated.

 

[Artful Dodger]

(Thinks for several minutes)....booger?

*sugar*

 

[Speedr117]

If Biden extends tax credits for Tesla, would they be retrospective?

If it is passed in 2021, it'll probably be for all of 2021, but not 2020.

 

[Speedr117]

Hardly important, IMO. Discuss it all you want, but it's simply a mechanism for improving liquidity and trade execution at the beginning and ending of every session without distorting the price too much (from what it would be if those orders had more time to play out). It's a very technical and esoteric subject that is primarily of interest to high-frequency traders trying to skim small profits and has very limited relevance to most investors. The fact that TSLA is going through Index inclusion doesn't change my opinion.

Except in this case, it seems to be VERY relevant. I think a lot of people envisioned a short squeeze type scenario. Now, if all it takes is an instantaneous event to reconcile all of the buyers and sellers, then the price wouldn't move that much, or if it did, it could be manipulated quickly up or down after the event since all of the buying would have been done and over at that relevant time. Or am I missing something here?

 

[Speedr117]

I missed the frantic close on friday because I was on a zoom call with my friends, getting drunk. But when I checked I discovered I now qualify for membership of that $pecial club

Anyway who's excited about tomorrow?

Sorry, but what $pecial club?

 

[Artful Dodger]

Benchmark funds:

1. Severely under-weight now, many with zero weightage, going by Bloomberg
2. Not seemingly accumulating yet, going by volumes
3. Under pressure for window dressing immediately, being end of year/quarter
4. Their size/need being bigger than indexed 120m shares

Doesn't this mean a very high chance that we will see buying pressure even after Dec-21, and before year/quarter ends Dec-31?
Perhaps @FrankSG covered this in his blog post, which I feel foolish to not yet make time to have gone through yet, given the awesome job he does

@Artful Dodger @generalenthu @Right_Said_Fred

I for one see continued reticence to buying TSLA by Benchmarked Funds for the same reason they haven't bought in already: they don't understand the business, or the opportunity.

We do.

Benchmarked Funds will get spanked in 2021Q1 when they face their 1st full quarter of returns while underweight on TSLA. I think we'll see multiple waves of buying over the next few quarters as the story, and Telsa financial results, start becoming more well known.

Maybe another $150B in buying interest over the course of '21/'22? I expect a flip from underweight to overweight for the benchmarked funds.

Cheers!