Yeah yeah I know, my numbers weren't precise. I was merely stating that Elon wants a high degree of safety certainty before releasing Level 5. 99.8% was incorrect, I think Elon's actual percentage was 99.9998% or something?
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Yeah yeah I know, my numbers weren't precise. I was merely stating that Elon wants a high degree of safety certainty before releasing Level 5. 99.8% was incorrect, I think Elon's actual percentage was 99.9998% or something?
This would be the first tax credit that starts in the middle of a calendar year. If this is so, that would stall U.S. delivery for Tesla as long as this bill is debated. Tesla is paying a lot of money to lobbyists, Zach is on this, if he isn't Elon is not going to be very pleased. In other words, heads will roll. Just had a thought, what if they sell BTC and use the profits to lower prices in the U.S. while this bill is debated, take 5k off at purchase. When bill is passed go back to regular prices.
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Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
You can't.
A dealer is a seperate corporate entity .. like the pastery next door needing a delivery-vehicle.. You cannot see a difference in those sales between 2 random corporate entities ..
But they need to be registered for that sale & this makes problems with governmental subsidies (as in some jurisdictions you only get them on brand-new and not on pre-owned vehicles). In germany you can take the 9k in subsidies in the first 6 months after the INITIAL sale. So it just buys you time. For every vehicle that used that loophole in 2020 you can basically subtract 1 eligible sale in 2021 - but this is a problem for FUTURE manufacturers, not the NOW manufacturers
And dealers must hope to sell them within 6 months or accept a heavy loss due to non-eligebility for governmental subsidies.
One reason why they did it: In 2020 every EV got counted with a factor of 2. In 2021 the factor decreases to 1.66. For a VW id.3 this translates to 10k€ per vehicle in evaded fines for 2020, but only ~8500€ per vehicle in 2021.
But things will get WAY worse for them.
2020 was still using NEDC for the calculation of ICE. 2022 will use WTLP. Roughly 20% more CO2 per car on paper that need to be offset with EVs.
To add insult to injury: currently they do not have to pay fines on the 5% WORST polluters they sold. This will get slashed pretty soon as well.
There will be billions in fines in the next years. And one american car-company with a HUGE pool of credits ready to sell them for .. lets say 90% of the fines value ..
What many are missing is that this BTC buy represents Tesla’s treasury function fulfilling its mandate of managing the company’s war chest. Most healthy Fortune 500 companies will carry more cash on hand than they need to fund their near and medium term operating requirements. That excess cash is meant to be used opportunistically or as reserves for black swan events. That cash will often be invested in T-bills or government bonds, many of which have carried near zero if not negative yield curves (especially when you consider that low interest rates would not even compensate for inflation). Treasury functions around the globe are looking for means of putting that unused cash to work and BTC is becoming the answer. It’s no longer a speculative bet. It’s a legitimately uncorrelated asset class that isn’t going to be subject to the same macro economic forces that currencies or equity markets will be. People trying to value it like other assets are just stuck in trying to compare apples to oranges.
The true unlock of value is when BTC suddenly becomes more than just an inflationary hedge. When customers and suppliers start accepting transactions in BTC, we are going to see an adoption velocity that people are going to be blind sided by. A genuine universal, frictionless, fully traceable currency. Not to say BTC is the right crypto asset to fulfill that need, but sometimes the first mover and recognizable brand wins that race, even against better use case competitors (Microsoft anyone...)?
Anyone that’s every worked with large businesses and has tried to move material sums of money between jurisdictions, particularly Asia or Latin America, can appreciate what removing that friction means to the working capital and treasury function of these businesses.
I’ll repeat... anyone liquidating their Tesla positions because of BTC are being distracted and short sighted as to where global finance and monetary policy is heading... and ultimately are forgetting that this is still the beginning of Tesla’s journey.
ByeByeJohnny
Active Member
Tesla will lobby for this to be passed asap, not retroactively.
There is no benefit to Tesla, actually it's the opposite, if all Tesla vehicles is retroactively eligible for the tax rebate. Because those cars are already sold. This would lower the number of future cars that will get the rebate.
There is also a decently high risk that if ALL cars sold in 2021 is counted instead of only those from a date in the next couple of weeks that will make Tesla pass the 400,000 mark a quarter earlier, thus missing out on a quarter (Q1 or Q2 in 2022) when they would sell 150.000-200,000 cars. Why would Tesla want to risk this just to get a retroactive rebate on much fewer already sold cars from Q1 2021.
The same goes for GM actually. So making it retroactive would be hurtful to the US manufacturers and help the Europeans and Asians.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Many people would agree that Tesla had a big hand in getting BTC to $50K+ with their $1.5B investment. What do we think the likelihood of BTC coming down significantly if Tesla were to sell all $2.45B that they now have? Wonder if it would create a new buying opportunity.....hmmmmm.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Also, if we PRETEND that politicians want what they say, which this bill implies they want to sell more EVs by passage of this bill, there’s no reason to look backwards towards EVs already sold...obviously they sold without requiring additional incentive.
j6Lpi429@3j
Closed
People keep characterising critics of teslas BTC move as either not understanding BTC or thinking its a bad investment. This is not the whole story. I think BTC might be a good short term investment, but its not one I want a company thats 'accelerating the transition to renewable energy' to be making.
You can see a move makes economic sense but also disapprove. I don't want tesla to use cobalt from Congo or employ prison labour, even though both would probably reduce costs.
Some of us invest in tesla because of their mission, not entirely to make money.
You can see a move makes economic sense but also disapprove. I don't want tesla to use cobalt from Congo or employ prison labour, even though both would probably reduce costs.
Some of us invest in tesla because of their mission, not entirely to make money.
Krugerrand
Meow
Yep, there sure were. One in particular stomped off here like a model walking the runway in 8” platform wooden clogs.
If the Senate uses "reconciliation" like with covid relief bill, this is going to take some time to pass. June or July at the earliest. They will never find ten Republicans to support climate bill because this is wrongly tied to AOC and her "new green deal" West Virginia coal miners pension funds will be restored to "bribe" Dem. Senator Manchin into supporting climate bill.
I don’t necessarily see those two as mutually exclusive when it comes to BTC and sustainability. I’ve worked with several BTC miners in setting up new facilities in locations with the most affordable, accessible, and fully renewable/sustainable energy sources available.
Tesla turning jurisdictions in to self sustaining, solar producing farms can just easily help turn BTC’s power consumption in to an opportunity for advancing the mission.
I wish we could move on from BTC and bickering to the really important stuff...
Like WTF does this mean?
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Some English chap took his Tesla to visit his dad:
The Royals usually drive British. Land Rovers and Jaguars etc. So Prince Charles could have driven the Jaguar i-Pace. But here he is in a Tesla Model S.
Source is Naeim Khanjani: https://twitter.com/NaeimKhanjani/status/1363206516673765376
The Royals usually drive British. Land Rovers and Jaguars etc. So Prince Charles could have driven the Jaguar i-Pace. But here he is in a Tesla Model S.
Source is Naeim Khanjani: https://twitter.com/NaeimKhanjani/status/1363206516673765376
I wish we could move on from BTC and bickering to the really important stuff...
Like WTF does this mean?
View attachment 638359
I feel like something is brewing but it's not clear what it is yet
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Some important decision needs to be made soon? I wonder what it is and what Elon will decide.I wish we could move on from BTC and bickering to the really important stuff...
Like WTF does this mean? (since it's Elon's avatar on Twitter today)
View attachment 638359
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