Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[gabeincal]

I'm getting bored of the whole up 3-5% one day, down 3-5% the next dynamic.

Sell weeklies and all your boredom will be gone.

 

[HG Wells]

I say if they remove the £3000 grant for EVs then they should add a £3000 tax on ICE.

WHY NOT BOTH !
Grant for EV and tax the ICE to pay for it.

This is not rocket science.

 

[Alphacrux]

Good summary of the LIDAR technology/player landscape:
Lidar Sweepstakes Draws 15 RFQs, But No Frontrunner

 

[buttershrimp]

Can't Tesla just make a RHD MiC Model 3 with LFP pack for 35k GBP?

Serious? There are people hacking TMC using our avatars to post disinformation? This makes me angry. I’m buying more TSLA

 

[Artful Dodger]

Question for those more familiar with market dynamics and the shadier methods of hedge funds and MMs. I may be way off base with this train of thought, but I know this board will have the answer...

Obviously triple witching day isn't just a thing impacting TSLA. So if MMs were severely underwater going into tomorrow on many high growth QQQ stocks, might they focus their manipulation on the bond market as a way to manipulate the entire QQQ as opposed to individual stocks? And if so how does that bode for Monday?

In short, could there be a new type of bond vigilante less focused on inflation concerns and more focused on directly manipulating equities?

Looks like you called that one:

U.S. 10 Year Treasury US10Y:
Yield | 10:54 AM EDT
1.735% +0.094​

 

[StealthP3D]

I say if they remove the £3000 grant for EVs then they should add a £3000 tax on ICE.

Do you work in the oil business? /s I mean, shouldn't the ICE tax be high enough to cover the true cost to society? Why should we subsidize oil at all now that Tesla has so expertly demonstrated that we have a viable alternative? One of the greatest crimes of the industrial era was the sneaky way that Goodyear Tire and oil interests had electric trolley's removed from our cities in favor of diesel and gas buses. Just to sell tires and oil. They used a huge and coordinated disinformation campaign to achieve this crime of the century. Yes, it was a real life conspiracy. And it worked.

An ICE tax that low is a slap in the face to anyone who has had their health impacted by ICE emissions.

 

[Thumper]

Do you work in the oil business? /s I mean, shouldn't the ICE tax be high enough to cover the true cost to society? Why should we subsidize oil at all now that Tesla has so expertly demonstrated that we have a viable alternative? One of the greatest crimes of the industrial era was the sneaky way that Goodyear Tire and oil interests had electric trolley's removed from our cities in favor of diesel and gas buses. Just to sell tires and oil. They used a huge and coordinated disinformation campaign to achieve this crime of the century. Yes, it was a real life conspiracy. And it worked.

An ICE tax that low is a slap in the face to anyone who has had their health impacted by ICE emissions.

I think that was GM that trashed the trolleys.

 

[goinfraftw]

I still remember how worked up people were for $750 (pre-split) back this time last year.

 

[SN_8]

Looks like you called that one:

U.S. 10 Year Treasury US10Y:​

Yield | 10:54 AM EDT​

1.735% +0.094​

I posted my question after the jump, but yeah, really curious if it's simply that yields are rising and so equities drop, or if it's more that yields are rising SO THAT equities drop.

The latter would be much more interesting to me

 

[Pras]

I posted my question after the jump, but yeah, really curious if it's simply that yields are rising and so equities drop, or if it's more that yields are rising SO THAT equities drop.

The latter would be much more interesting to me

Yields are rising because inflation expectation is north of 2%. Remember the real yield (nominal - inflation) is still negative for 10 yr treasury.

This is not a negative event long term. Short term it does create volatility in equities.

 

[woodisgood]

I posted my question after the jump, but yeah, really curious if it's simply that yields are rising and so equities drop, or if it's more that yields are rising SO THAT equities drop.

The latter would be much more interesting to me

There were going to be ramifications for the all the GME non-sense. This is Wall Street putting the screws to all the retail and young investors who made a killing in 2020. It's an ugly game. You don't even have to know the exact mechanisms involved; IMHO it's enough to know the types of people you're dealing with and their motivations.

 

[StealthP3D]

I think that was GM that trashed the trolleys.

It was, but they had a lot of help. Like I said, it was a coordinated conspiracy with many actors taking part.

 

[petit_bateau]

Did brexit really set out that car imports from other EU states would come with an import tariff? I admit not having researched that, but that would seem ridiculous from a UK consumer buying power perspective.

Provided the FTA is ratified then import tariffs & quotas will not come into play (except in some future circumstances that would be most unlikely to affect Tesla, to do with battery sourcing).

Ratification of the FTA by the European Parliament at the moment is highly suspect due to the UK's repeated misbehaviour re NI, see Press corner and The European Commission launches legal proceedings against the United Kingdom – a guided tour . Opinions differ on the extent to which the UK government is deliberately trying to collapse the FTA (and the WA, perhaps even the GFA), or whether they are posturing for internal political reasons but expect that they can keep it together, or whether this is simply reckless stupidity.

Nothing in Brexit is sensible with respect to benefiting either the UK or the people of the UK, imho, and Tesla have been quite correct to go to Berlin rather than Bristol.

When Berlin comes onstream then it seems reasonable that a short range 3/Y with an LFP pack could squeeze below the £35k threshold. That in turn will be walked down but the 2 will then squeeze under the future threshold - as will in all likelihood future low-end Nissans (ex Sunderland) and perhaps lowe-end BMW Minis (Oxford).

 

[AudubonB]

Do you work in the oil business? /s I mean, shouldn't the ICE tax be high enough to cover the true cost to society? Why should we subsidize oil at all now that Tesla has so expertly demonstrated that we have a viable alternative? One of the greatest crimes of the industrial era was the sneaky way that Goodyear Tire and oil interests had electric trolley's removed from our cities in favor of diesel and gas buses. Just to sell tires and oil. They used a huge and coordinated disinformation campaign to achieve this crime of the century. Yes, it was a real life conspiracy. And it worked.

An ICE tax that low is a slap in the face to anyone who has had their health impacted by ICE emissions.

Your answer sounds as though you’re saying something along the lines of “My spouse went to the cancer ward and all I got was £3000 and this t-shirt.” I’m pretty sure that, on reflection, you can see that there is more power to such a tax than just that.

First, it moderately boldly goes where previously the taxman goeth not. That‘s a good first step.
Second, it presents itself as a nice symmetry to the “But....EV subsidy!” PR problem.
Third, £3000 here, £3000 there....adds up to many pounds of pounds in fairly short order.
Fourth and to me most importantly, the immediate and long-lasting disincentive such a tax places on the purchase of ICEs is exactly the kind of Best Use of a tax that ought to be promulgated.

Should it be £3500? £5000? and so forth....there you begin to get in the quagmire of determining not just cause and effect but how one weighs the societal cost of an externality. This bugabear is anathema not just to politicians but to any population as well, excluding the 9.37 externality-focused economists per hundred million.

 

[StealthP3D]

Your answer sounds as though you’re saying something along the lines of “My spouse went to the cancer ward and all I got was £3000 and this t-shirt.” I’m pretty sure that, on reflection, you can see that there is more power to such a tax than just that.

First, it moderately boldly goes where previously the taxman goeth not. That‘s a good first step.
Second, it presents itself as a nice symmetry to the “But....EV subsidy!” PR problem.
Third, £3000 here, £3000 there....adds up to many pounds of pounds in fairly short order.
Fourth and to me most importantly, the immediate and long-lasting disincentive such a tax places on the purchase of ICEs is exactly the kind of Best Use of a tax that ought to be promulgated.

Should it be £3500? £5000? and so forth....there you begin to get in the quagmire of determining not just cause and effect but how one weighs the societal cost of an externality. This bugabear is anathema not just to politicians but to any population as well, excluding the 9.37 externality-focused economists per hundred million.

I'm in favor of the tax on ICE, I was just saying it was too low to even cover the direct costs.

 

[scaesare]

It might require a reset when new tires are installed.

Right... thinking maybe triggered when you hit the button to recalibrate the tire pressure sensors.

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

So while TSLA is down 25% from ATH, GM is absolutely soaring. This is hilarious given that it’s now pretty obvious that GM has entered into deals/partnerships with 2 “allegedly” fraudulent companies in NKLA and RIDE.

 

[OrthoSurg]

There are a whole herd of elephants in the room. He completely ignores that reduced CO2 emissions are only one of many valuable benefits of powering our future with electricity vs. fossil fuels.

He ignores the medical and human costs of so many people living in cities and breathing toxic exhaust gases. The medical expenses that society shoulders attributed just to vehicle exhaust are astronomical. We have "road taxes" on each gallon of gasoline but no "hospital, drug and doctor tax"? What about a "COVID tax" for all the people who caught and died from COVID due to weakened immune systems from breathing polluted air? How about a tax to compensate business owners for missed work days due to doctor visits, illness and other medical overhead?

The total costs of powering society with fossil fuels are mind-numbingly staggering. It's a hidden tax that we all subsidize every day.

Have you come across any study showing the numbers of how much indirect impact cost on health of one gallon of gas sold, indirect cost for sear rise, relocation, fiture economical impac, etc. I have heard many times Elon Musk talk about the externalities cost of fossil fuel industries never being considered in gas cost price to decarbonate the CO2 emitted. However I never came accross any real number on the subject

 

[OrthoSurg]

So while TSLA is down 25% from ATH, GM is absolutely soaring. This is hilarious given that it’s now pretty obvious that GM has entered into deals/partnerships with 2 “allegedly” fraudulent companies in NKLA and RIDE.

That’s what I find hard trying to understand the rational in the stock market stock price movement which is purely speculation in the short term with terrible compagnies rising while other clear leaders going down. But I guess, the long term weighting machine that is the stock market is the only important factor. I am on the verge of going back to my idle hibernating bear like last year where I didn’t look at any stock price from March to June.

 

[dl003]

That’s what I find hard trying to understand the rational in the stock market stock price movement which is purely speculation in the short term with terrible compagnies rising while other clear leaders going down. But I guess, the long term weighting machine that is the stock market is the only important factor. I am on the verge of going back to my idle hibernating bear like last year where I didn’t look at any stock price from March to June.

If information was perfect, there would be no clear winners and losers in the market. We bulls (hehe) thrive on the idiocracy of the street. And it's not like we suffered the last 18 months. Let the market recharge its stupid-meter for more future tendies.