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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I suspect Tesla may be shifting towards steer-by-wire with the Cybertruck for a few different reasons:
- Elon’s twitter posts mention the yoke would be better with variable steering ratio(steer by wire).
- 4 wheel steering would be simpler to execute with steer by wire. Tank turn (without skidding) would be much simpler.
- Steer-by-wire makes steering wheel delete possible for future robotaxi.
- The best part is no part (steering shaft).
- Rear axle steering could enhance trailer stability / reduce sway automatically without steering input. And make backing a trailer much easier.
 
The Tesla store seems to have really stepped their game up, my Cyberwhistle order arrived already... Which is really good considering how long some of my past orders took to be filled.

Do you have a phone app that will reveal the exact frequency of the tone it makes when you blow on it? I'm anxious to decode the secret message encoded by the tone frequency in Hz. /s

Seriously though, how does it sound? Is it loud enough to use as an emergency whistle should your Cybertruck slide into a crevasse? I bought a titanium whistle for almost that much made by Nitecore a few years back and was disappointed in the volume and the tone, it sounded too 'airy'.
 
We need to wait for Elon's update on products at the next earnings call.

4 Motors has some advantages off road or when hauling heavy loads, that might not apply to regular driving, or track driving.

If they have dropped Cybertruck configurations. this is mainly for inventory simplification. and because 4 motors is the best spec for this type of vehicle.

They are already making Plaid Model S and it is a great car, I don't see a need to change.

Model X is more of a candidate for 4 motors, because it sometimes is used for towing and off road.
Don't forget, the Tesla semi also uses 4 motors.
 
Back on Monday when the share price was 14% higher than current price, there were 20 posts on this thread about "personal islands", a sure sign of a local top. Going forward the mere mention of peronsal "islands" or "mountains" should result in an automatic yellow card and should be discouraged as much as haiku and limericks. Hope everyone has a great weekend.

We've lost 14% ? Why didn't someone tell me? Now instead of my own mountain with an aesthetically pleasing chiseled rock peak, I'll have to settle for a pile of rubble. :( Does anyone know how tall it has to be before I can submit a name to the USGS mapping department?

Good thing I fortified myself by eating the rest of the Thanksgiving turkey, I'm going to be shopping in the dented can isle now. And I think I'll wait until next year to replace my worn-out shoelaces. Hopefully we are higher by then. I'm down to one bag of rice and my beans are getting low too. No butter until the share price increases!
 
The decline of the fossil fuel economy poses a significant threat to global financial stability. The report warns investors there is far more risk in the fossil fuel system than is conventionally priced into financial markets. Investors need to increase discount rates, reduce expected prices, curtail terminal values and account for the clean-up costs.

Decline and Fall: The Size & Vulnerability of the Fossil Fuel System - Carbon Tracker Initiative
Some gems from the report.

The three main assets are the 900bn tonnes of coal, oil and gas, valued by the World Bank at $39tn; supply infrastructure of $10tn and demand infrastructure (electricity, transport and heavy industry) of $22tn; and financial markets with $18tn of equity (a quarter of the total), $8tn of traded bonds (half the total) and up to four times as much Equity debt.

The key flows of the system are $1-3tn a year in economic rent to the petrostates from the fossil fuels; capital expenditure of $1tn on supply infrastructure and $3-4tn on demand infrastructure; and profits of $1-2tn.

Many petrostates have built their economic systems on the expectation of continued high flows of economic rents. In a world of declining demand, the flow of profits from fossil fuels will fall at the same time as the risks will rise. The size of the gap in expected fossil fuel wealth between the desires of the petrostates and the aspirations of the Paris Agreement is in the order of $100tn. The gap is a threat to the stability of some petrostates.

The decline of the fossil fuel system is a significant threat to financial stability. $32tn in fixed assets, a quarter of the global equity market and half of the global corporate bond markets are in sectors linked to the fossil fuel system, and the banking sector is exposed to the very large amounts of unlisted debt. Now is the time to put in place an orderly wind-down of assets rather than trying to rebuild the unsustainable.

Warren Redlichs 200 trillion Price target doesn’t seem stupid after all.😂
 
I suspect Tesla may be shifting towards steer-by-wire with the Cybertruck for a few different reasons:
- Elon’s twitter posts mention the yoke would be better with variable steering ratio(steer by wire).
- 4 wheel steering would be simpler to execute with steer by wire. Tank turn (without skidding) would be much simpler.
- Steer-by-wire makes steering wheel delete possible for future robotaxi.
- The best part is no part (steering shaft).
- Rear axle steering could enhance trailer stability / reduce sway automatically without steering input. And make backing a trailer much easier.
Yep. Elon doesn't like to tweet about some tech/solution and ship products without it. My hunch says the team looked at the problem after Rivian made their marketing announcements. Quad motor levels the playing field... wouldn't call it an advantage over Chevy or Rivian. Tesla will win with their usual weapons (range etc.)

Also, Elon doesn't like to tweet so much new information without a reveal soon after. I expect Cybertruck reveal update soon. January 19th? Achilles Heel of my theory here is that they are loathe to increase demand and lengthen the waiting list even more. Having said that... taking reservations with no prices or info on the variants is weird.

Also I think there will be nothing on December 9th. If he does something on that date, he will be hounded by numerology crazies forever after.

Personally... I want the Cybertruck with the longest range. If I have to get the quad-motor variant... so be it 🤣
 
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I value your posts, even those I disagree with. I thought it odd that, in my interpretation of your posts, you suggested that because TSLA's CAGR is unprecedented, we should be concerned about growth going forward.

There's an argument to be made that past performance is a good predictor of future performance. Bad companies tend to stay bad. Good companies tend to stay good (due to momentum). There are also lots of reasons why this is unlikely to be true forever for practically any company that ever exists.

I wasn't aware of the huge CAGR in TSLA since IPO. It kind of shocked me. I went back and revisited my own very simple models and I can't think of a reason why I should think that because the growth rate has been so large that it should somehow revert to the mean, or something like that. I only try to look forward.

Momentum only works until it runs out. In the long run a company has to stand on it's own. From the perspective of a long-term investor, I think you are correct to look forward and largely ignore past appreciation when a company is growing this fast and has such good 'dna'. There is no doubt that the current share price cannot be supported if investors are only willing to look one year ahead. But, of course, that is not the case because people are willing to look farther ahead than that in order to climb aboard the kind of long-term growth that Tesla offers.

Most investors that are not complete newbies have watched high-flyers pass them by because they thought they were over-valued at the time. That's why people are willing to try to look farther ahead, because investors have to outbid each other to get a piece of the companies that they think will offer them the best long-term appreciation. It's not irrational, it's just a fact of investing that everyone wants the stocks with the most growth looking forward and, to get them, you will have to pay for earnings farther and farther forward. Technically speaking, it becomes more speculative.

Now that Tesla is in the process of showing Wall Street what they are made of in actual dollars and cents, the only language Wall Street understands, Wall Street is catching on. The current gyrations are simply caused by overall market nervousness, COVID and Elon's shares hitting the market. It's silly, really but I like the share price to not look too far forward because then the value of my portfolio is not as speculative. I can also buy more if it becomes enough of a no-brainer, something I've been avoiding because I have so much. But, if it falls enough, then I'm not as concentrated so I can buy more. If I had no position and long-term money to deploy, TSLA is a screaming buy right here at $1K. It doesn't matter how it got here, it's where it will be going in the long-term that is of interest.

Some people will never get over the nervousness that an exceptional company with great growth prospects causes simply because companies like this naturally have higher volatility with bigger swings. But that's how investors achieve the biggest long-term returns, by buying and holding such companies. It comes with the territory. Like I've said many times, if you want to run with the big dogs, you have to be comfortable peeing in the tall grass.

That said, I don't invest in companies that are too speculative because I do get nervous! That's why I always look for companies that I think have a high probability of maintaining a superior growth rate. I don't consider Tesla as speculative as, for example, MSFT and QCOM (which I also own again) even though they are more mature companies (or perhaps because of it). Both are set up to, at some point, slow down below the growth rate they are valued at. I still like the risk/reward, or I wouldn't own them, but they are not as easy for me to own as TSLA even though they are much less volatile. I compensate for this by having much smaller positions in them.

I sincerely hope TSLA share price doesn't shoot for the sky because I like riding long waves, many, many years is the best scenario. The more years the better. I want to watch that annual appreciation average 25% or higher each year, not run up 200% and have to face the tax consequences and then find a new place to deploy the profits that remain after paying taxes. Or, alternatively, run up 200%, decide to hold, and then face years of slow decline. Neither option is as palatable as if the market retains a high amount of skepticism and the share price remains a consistently good value that just keeps appreciating. Right now, I see far more skepticism than is warranted and I kind of like that because, at some point I expect Tesla's enemies to try to "prove" the bubble theory by running it farther and faster than the market can eventually condone which will allow them to crash the price. That's what I believe they tried to do with the initial runup to $850 back in January but TSLA foiled their misguided efforts by showing better results through 2021 than the haters expected so it didn't really work.

I don't mind the normal volatility like we have right now at all, but I really dislike bigger disruptions in the market. Everyone is different, likes different things, but I think people ought to be careful of what they wish for. I mostly wish for Tesla to continue hitting it out of the park, knowing full well the share price will follow (even if it takes a few weeks or months longer than we think it ought to).

It's still all about the batteries. A home run would be solving the manufacturing issues and then replicating that quickly in Austin and Berlin. And I'm confident that is Tesla's plan, and they have raw materials contracts lined up and are getting ready to roll. The main variable is timing. Because management knows they can't roll them out in huge volume until they have confidence in both the batteries and the manufacturing process. They are one and the same really. This is what will most determine the value of our investments over the next two years. A home run here will allow the share price to boom without me getting nervous that it's getting ahead of itself.
 
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Tesla still drops like a small cap unlike the other top S&P companies. Can't wait for the day when this company having less Beta.

I could learn to like less Beta. But not if it means our capital appreciation is limited to that of the rest of the top S&P 500 companies.

Sometimes mo' Beta is mo' betta'! ;)
 
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Tesla still drops like a small cap unlike the other top S&P companies. Can't wait for the day when this company having less Beta.
We just need Tesla to completely pay off their remaining debt…..then of course we’ll get the investment grade 😉.

In all seriousness, we had combination of a market sell off + Elon openly saying he’s going to sell 17 million shares + we had a sharp rally to get up to 1240…..so all things considered the stock is still trading decently compared to small cap tech/growth.

The Nasdaq/QQQ don’t tell the full story. Growth/tech small and mid size companies have been absolutely destroyed for months now
 
I think Tesla is preemptively reacting based on Rivian, F-150 specs in a good way
CT still qualifies for EV credits even with some more bells and whistles and at higher costs

I haven't seen any signs that Tesla has any concern about competing with the F-150 Lightning or the Rivian. To me it looks like Tesla is just streamlining production. When they started costing everything out, they just said, "It makes a lot more sense to configure them like this." It might be related to the other change, the move from front-only steering to all-wheel steering.

Assuming the rumors are true, of course.
 
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@StealthP3D I noticed you mentioned "batteries". Here is a recent email I'm able to share from one of my contacts whose team is leading the battery project at 47700 Kato Rd. in Fremont:

"You have a great vision and choose to be a Tesla long-term investor, you are now well rewarded for your trust in Elon and this company. I believe this is just the beginning, we will have a lot more growth in the next 2 to 3 decades. You probably have heard of the 4680 batteries, my team is leading this project, it's like another start-up in Tesla, and Tesla is basically a start-up company. This battery will be much better in terms of energy density with a much lower manufacturing cost, and the Tab-less design is great for super-fast charging. We are working very very hard to make this happen ASAP!"

One of the reasons I "hold'em and never fold'em"! If "we will have a lot more growth in the next 2 to 3 decades" is correct, my wife and I will probably be gone by then and our son will be a trust fund billionaire, but if today's inflation continues that will be like a 2021 100 millionaire. I think by 2025 and again by 2030, we shall know for sure. This period is when the old ICE players will have to either put up or shut up in terms of their EV market share. We shall also see how much market share Tesla can hold on to in China.
It's still all about the batteries. A home run would be solving the manufacturing issues and then replicating that quickly in Austin and Berlin. And I'm confident that is Tesla's plan, and they have raw materials contracts lined up and are getting ready to roll. The main variable is timing. Because management knows they can't roll them out in huge volume until they have confidence in both the batteries and the manufacturing process. They are one and the same really. This is what will most determine the value of our investments over the next two years. A home run here will allow the share price to boom without me getting nervous that it's getting ahead of itself.
 
I am sorry for having offended people. I therefore will stop. I have no desire to generate polemic reactions.
I appreciate assumptions being tested - particularly from someone who has such a longstanding knowledge of the global auto industry. Please don't stop sharing your honest opinions, it would be a loss to this community.
 
FSD Beta v10.6 Release Notes

• ⁠Improved object detection network architecture for non-VRUs (e.g. cars, trucks, buses). 7% higher recall. 16% lower depth error, and 21% lower velocity error for crossing vehicles.
• ⁠New visibility network with 18.5% less mean relative error.
• ⁠New general static object network with 17% precision improvements in high curvature and nighttime cases.
• ⁠Improved stopping position at unprotected left turns while yielding to oncoming objects, using object predictions beyond the crossing point.
• ⁠Allow more room for longitudinal alignment during merges by incorporating modelling of merge region end.
• ⁠Improved comfort when offsetting for objects that are cutting out of your lane.

From here
 
I haven't seen any signs that Tesla has any concern about competing with the F-150 Lightning or the Rivian. To me it looks like Tesla is just streamlining production. When they started costing everything out, they just said, "It makes a lot more sense to configure them like this." It might be related to the other change, the move from front-only steering to all-wheel steering.

Assuming the rumors are true, of course.
It Is a bit unclear to me if rear wheel drive only is no longer a CT option?

A standard dual motor rear unit with steering ability makes sense as a standard on all CT. This mitigates the added complexity of steering by the removal of the differential. This would be the 2 motor version In this thinking.

Once the rear is decided as a standard, the question is the forward drive unit. One motor front drive unit might be a good option since it is already in production.

Going to a dual motor front drive unit is new engineering. Adding drive by wire would also be new. If drive by wire is already a settled decision then engineering a new dual motor unit drive unit at the same time makes some sense also for possible reasons I won’t go into.

Engineering a dual motor steerable drive unit would have multiple applications beyond todays product line and would possibly extend drive by wire to more products and increase standardization.

I believe Elon has CT in his thinking because soon must be pencils down as to design. The fact that the drive unit configuration is still in discussion reflects that pencils have been busy until recently IMO.

Extended design window is fine in this instance because the construction of the factory is still fluid as to the CT. A gift.

Drive by wire would be big and would influence many design decisions. It might be particularly difficult given present supply chain constraints.

It would be great to have a documentary focused on the CT development process from the metal up.