bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
LoL. What?
The USA isn't part of OPEC and is not governed by that body's practices. The USA can ramp oil/gas production irrespective of what OPEC wants/cares.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
LoL. What?
The USA isn't part of OPEC and is not governed by that body's practices. The USA can ramp oil/gas production irrespective of what OPEC wants/cares.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The mission is not carried out more quickly by gaining customers in one group while losing customers in another. Worse when it happens because of ridiculous positions not based in reality, (Covid gone by April 2020), or supporting irrational unpopular opinions, (trucker strike which most truckers didn't support and could hurt Tesla logistics). My "dogma" is first principles and fact based, which is why I'm aligned with Elon most of the time, except when he deviates from those principles.
I suspect that the coal mines water usage may just be pit dewatering. When mining below the water table it is necessary to pump the water that flows into your pit out as heavy equipment does not work well in muddy conditions/underwater.
I think what they meant was that the US asked OPEC to increase OPEC's production, and OPEC said no
While Tesla is innovating on key manufacturing, battery, and software tech, Toyota is innovating on this:
Needs more
How about we lift the sanctions from Venezuela?
mblakele
FSD Beta (99)
[...] On February 28th Tesla workers elected their first works council, a group of employees that in German law co-decide with managers things like working hours, leave and training.
For Elon Musk, Tesla’s anti-union chief executive, this must rankle. He has tried to shield his first German plant from Germany’s strict labour laws by incorporating the business as a Societas Europaea (SE), a public company registered under EU corporate law that is exempt from some “co-determination” rules, such as the requirement for firms with more than 2,000 employees to give workers half the seats on supervisory boards. ses are not, however, exempt from having a works council.
IG Metall, Germany’s mightiest union, which represents auto workers, has been on a collision course with Mr Musk ever since he refused to sign up to collective wage agreements for the industry (the only other firm not included is Volkswagen, which has its own generous wage deal). It has set up an office close to the gigafactory to advise Tesla workers about their rights and listen to their complaints. It has employed a Polish speaker to organise employees that Tesla is hiring across the border in Poland. It hopes that persuading enough Tesla workers to join its ranks would add oomph to its campaign to join the collective wage deal; the union says the company pays senior staff well but that production-line workers get a fifth less than those at bmw and Mercedes-Benz. Most important, it sees the works council as the first step to full co-determination.
Mr Musk must see it differently. He may have fast-tracked the election in order to get a more sympathetic council. Tesla has so far hired only around 2,500 mostly senior and skilled workers, out of a workforce that will grow to 12,000 or so. Such employees are likelier to see eye to eye with management. [...]
The part about incorporating as an SE was news to me, and the difference may be important in other ways. However much of this article struck me as attempts to build a mountain out of a molehill. I doubt that having a workers' council "rankles" Musk, since Tesla already has one for the Grohmann operation in Germany. The bit about collective wage agreements also fails to mention stock options — an important omission.Details aside, for me the message from this article is that now that the permit disputes are settling down, we can expect labor disputes to begin.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Big change always happens from near the center, not from the extreme left or the extreme right. Elon has been busy increasing the overall number of people with a favorable impression of him personally and, by extension, electric vehicles and sustainable energy. He doesn't need to gain support of the ultra-left; he needs to add the support of conservatives and the undecided. The far left and the far right are unimportant because they will never be a part of big changes anyway. Big change come from somewhere within the middle 80%.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
You're quite mistaken if you think only people at the extremes have issues with thing's he's said.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
My point is not that he hasn't lost a few people on the margins, it's that, overall, he is gaining more support. You might also note that of the people in the top 10 for the number of Twitter followers, Elon is the only one who has recently moved higher since the chart was updated:
Sustainability should be mainstream position, not just for liberals or people who think everyone should be 100% politically correct at all times
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Sunnfun
Member
A workers council (Betriebsrat) has nothing to do with Union involvement. Any company above a certain number of employees (IMO 100 or so) has the right to form one. It's just about labor involvement on certain management decisions. Since this labor council was formed very early in the establishment of Giga Berlin, it's probably mostly very pro Tesla employees. Nothing to worry about. I think IGM (The biggest auto maker union) will have a VERY hard time to even get a foot in the door at Tesla.from The Economist
[...] On February 28th Tesla workers elected their first works council, a group of employees that in German law co-decide with managers things like working hours, leave and training.For Elon Musk, Tesla’s anti-union chief executive, this must rankle. He has tried to shield his first German plant from Germany’s strict labour laws by incorporating the business as a Societas Europaea (SE), a public company registered under EU corporate law that is exempt from some “co-determination” rules, such as the requirement for firms with more than 2,000 employees to give workers half the seats on supervisory boards. ses are not, however, exempt from having a works council.IG Metall, Germany’s mightiest union, which represents auto workers, has been on a collision course with Mr Musk ever since he refused to sign up to collective wage agreements for the industry (the only other firm not included is Volkswagen, which has its own generous wage deal). It has set up an office close to the gigafactory to advise Tesla workers about their rights and listen to their complaints. It has employed a Polish speaker to organise employees that Tesla is hiring across the border in Poland. It hopes that persuading enough Tesla workers to join its ranks would add oomph to its campaign to join the collective wage deal; the union says the company pays senior staff well but that production-line workers get a fifth less than those at bmw and Mercedes-Benz. Most important, it sees the works council as the first step to full co-determination.Mr Musk must see it differently. He may have fast-tracked the election in order to get a more sympathetic council. Tesla has so far hired only around 2,500 mostly senior and skilled workers, out of a workforce that will grow to 12,000 or so. Such employees are likelier to see eye to eye with management. [...]The part about incorporating as an SE was news to me, and the difference may be important in other ways. However much of this article struck me as attempts to build a mountain out of a molehill. I doubt that having a workers' council "rankles" Musk, since Tesla already has one for the Grohmann operation in Germany. The bit about collective wage agreements also fails to mention stock options — an important omission.
Details aside, for me the message from this article is that now that the permit disputes are settling down, we can expect labor disputes to begin.
Dreadnought
Member
It's not about regulations but available local water supply. The lignite mines are about 100km south of the Gigafactory. A couple of active mines are located near Cottbus. Consider this as the maximum distance to an abundant water supply. Tesla probably won't need to look that far for sources that satisfy the anticipated demand for phase 2 and beyond.
LiveLong&Profit
Member
On the flip side: Should bots become hugely succesful and the cost of effective and cheap labour therefore be lowered by a lot quickly, then logically, shortly after most of everything that exists should probably also be valued way less, given that the labour component is the key ingredient in making most things valuable in the first place.
As Elon says, machinery and production equipment is just distilled labour.
We humans are funny creatures so many things could happen. We could collectively decide that everything build in the "dawn of humanity" i.e before robots, should be considered antique. It that happens, old things/pre-robot things and goods will remain very valuable, even though most of it could be easily be replaced by much better and cheaper means.
Tesla cars would be twice that: Both 'human-built' AND also heralding the era of robotics so historically significant.
So - hang on to your Teslas!
C’mon that list has to be broken. A Canadian is in second place? This this has clearly been gamed hard by Canadian hackers.My point is not that he hasn't lost a few people on the margins, it's that, overall, he is gaining more support. You might also note that of the people in the top 10 for the number of Twitter followers, Elon is the only one who has recently moved higher since the chart was updated:
Sustainability should be mainstream position, not just for liberals or people who think everyone should be 100% politically correct at all times
I’m guessing based on who is at the top a lot of people up there are just there on momentum alone. Not a lot of chance the 2 former presidents and a Canadian singer who was popular 10 years ago are going to be moving anywhere.
But to the bigger point. Of course Musk isn’t alienating followers. Most people find his more off-point comments to be more amusing than offending. I rolled my eyes at the Canadian trucker thing, but overall he’s an interesting guy to follow.
A
Reminding people Tesla will benefit from the situation without saying it?
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Yes, this is being driven primarily by scare-mongering in the U.S. Media (looking squarely at Bloomberg), and whoever is the financial backer of these German 'enviro' court campers (looking mostly at Die drei großen Autoherstellerk).
It is very important to note that Tesla is not alone in this quest to secure its water supply. Here (again) is yesterday's tweet from our own @avoigt :
Let me emphasize important news in this tweet: The Brandenburg Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Climate Protection Axel Vogel (Greens party) said the following on Mar 4, 2022: (per Alex Voigt above)
"New water supply for the region is already been investigated and planned."
It is not up to the Courts whether Tesla Giga Berlin get future water supplies. More water will be provided according to plans directly from the State government.
Cheers!
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Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Elon Musk on Twitter: "Hate to say it, but we need to increase oil & gas output immediately. Extraordinary times demand extraordinary measures." / Twitter
Elon is on record saying even if he could turn off all fossil fuel use tomorrow, he would not do so because the World needs the energy right now. But that isn't the issue, it's the speed of the inevitable transition to renewable energy. “By putting a price on carbon, we are fixing a pricing error in the market” Elon said in Paris in 2016.
“If countries decide to do a carbon tax or cap and trade, and it is real and not watered-down and weak, I think we can see a transition that is in the 15 to 20 years time frame as supposed to 40 to 50 years time frame."
To go beyond words, let's look at whether Elon has 'walked the walk' on carbon pricing in the past 5 years. As you may know, Elon recently donated $100M dollars to the Carbon X Prize society ($50M to the winner) for competing tech to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Let's price carbon at $50/ton (a commonly-selected carbon price around the world). $50M buys about 1M tons of carbon removal (equivalent to buying $50M in carbon offsets), plus carbon-removal tech advancement as a bonus.
Now let's look at SpaceX emissions. Each Falcon9 uses about 400 tons of propellant, so emits 400 tons of C02 per launch. How many launches are covered by $50M in carbon offsets. About 2,500 launches. How many Falcon 9 launches have their been so far? About 100. So clearly Elon is 'walking the walk' just not crowing about it (and oddly, neither is BLOOMBERG covering this). In effect, Elon personally has paid to make F9 carbon neutral, and has made a substantial pre-payment on future launches (this also covers Elon's private jet travel, and likely much of Tesla, but I don't have a simple way to estimate Tesla's manufacturing carbon intensity)
I do note that future Starship and Superheavy will use methalox propellants, which should further reduce the carbon intensity of rocket launches, when rated on tons of carbon emitted per tons of cargo delivered to low Earth orbit (LEO).
As usual, Elon has done his homework, reached the correct decision, and is acting with the courage of his convictions. What more could we ask of our CEO?
Cheers!
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Buckminster
Well-Known Member
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
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