Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Ogre]

Weird, Wyoming is outlawing the sale of EVs at the same time the legacy OEMs will stop producing the ICE vehicles they hope to continue selling there.

So, I guess that they will also be purchasing these OEMs as they fail and will move their union workforce to the new ICE factories being built in Wyoming that will be needed to support this ridiculous legislation.

I'm just glad that @thesmokingman managed to post a photo of the congress-critters who wrote this legislation.

Think about this for a minute. Wyoming has noting to lose pissing off Tesla and EV companies. It’s not as if Tesla would consider setting up production there. They don’t care and their constituents are paying $1.50/ gallon for gas and don’t care about global warming (I know generalization).

 

[Brn2Run]

We can confidently say Tesla has done their job to curb inflation.
So all investors in the United States markets can thank Tesla when Darth Powell
pauses rates hikes next month.
A simple "Thank you Elon" on Twitter should suffice...

Lets say Tesla may have kicked themselves down from the 1st place they had (or have) when it comes to raising prices last couple of years.

 

[SmokyPeat]

Think about this for a minute. Wyoming has noting to lose pissing off Tesla and EV companies. It’s not as if Tesla would consider setting up production there. They don’t care and their constituents are paying $1.50/ gallon for gas and don’t care about global warming (I know generalization).

Wasn't Elon in Wyoming meeting a gathering of politicians fairly recently? I doubt he'll be impressed by this sort of pathetic posturing. Well, on this issue at least.

 

[Ogre]

Wasn't Elon in Wyoming meeting a gathering of politicians fairly recently? I doubt he'll be impressed by this sort of pathetic posturing.

I’m pretty sure whatever Musk wants in Wyoming he’s not going to let this get in the way.

 

[Chenkers]

New low from MSM

Msn purposely reposting a story from Patch of a POLESTAR crashing into a house. They removed the picture of the polestar, just showing the 2nd picture of the aftermath with the false headline. The original Patch article also had a false headline, but later removed it and just say a "car" even though the link still says "Tesla -crashes-garage-lake-forest-thursday"

MSN

www.msn.com

Original patch article

Car Crashes Into Garage In Lake Forest Thursday

The crash was reported just before 2:30 p.m. Thursday in the 24200 block of Okeechobee Lane.

patch.com

MSN blaming Tesla for a Polestar crashing reminds me of this Reuters article - notice the caption under the photo:

 

[FSDtester#1]

Lets say Tesla may have kicked themselves down from the 1st place they had (or have) when it comes to raising prices last couple of years.

Could you explain further, I wasn’t able to make out your point.
Thanks

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

MSN blaming Tesla for a Polestar crashing reminds me of this Reuters article - notice the caption under the photo:

It’s the Kleenex effect. Tesla is dominating BEV sales to the point where people say Tesla instead of BEV.

 

[elasalle]

Based on IRA and subsequent Tesla price cuts… should competition be spending $$ building infrastructure like charging if their cars not selling

Btw any news when US super chargers going to be open for all?

 

[Maarten]

And under the “Clueless” category: The Daily Double!​

Wyoming Legislators Draft Resolution Banning Electric Vehicles By 2035​

Take That, California! Wyoming Legislators Draft Resolution Banning Electric Vehicles By 2035

In response to California and other states phasing out the sale of gasoline-powered cars, Wyoming legislators have introduced a resolution that would ban new electric vehicles in the Cowboy State by 2035.

cowboystatedaily.com

Unlike California’s ban on gas-powered cars, the resolution’s co-sponsor, Sen. Brian Boner, R-Douglas, said the Wyoming resolution would be meaningful in making a statement if passed, but it would be entirely symbolic.

 

[Ogre]

Based on IRA and subsequent Tesla price cuts… should competition be spending $$ building infrastructure like charging if their cars not selling

Btw any news when US super chargers going to be open for all?

Legacy auto wants to sell cars. Lots of consumers are like “Hey your car doesn’t use Tesla’s Superchargers or have a reliable network so __sucks__”

So Lagacy auto is like… Hmmm How should we fix this?

Executive A at Lagacy Auto company: “How about we make our own charging network!”

Exec B: “Sounds expensive and risky.”

Exec C: “We gottz no money left after we spent all our money on a fantastic Super Bowl advert.”

Exec B: “What if we make the dealerships pay for it?”

Exec C: “They gottz no money for expensive charging stations.”

Exec B: “Nah, they’ll just have to pay for L2 chargers, they’ll love it when customers have to hang out in their lobby for 4 hours.”

Exec A: “But thats not very useful.”

Exec C: “Doesn’t need to be useful, we just need our numbers to look like Teslas and cars will sell! SHIP IT!”

 

[Prunesquallor]

Legacy auto wants to sell cars. Lots of consumers are like “Hey your car doesn’t use Tesla’s Superchargers or have a reliable network so __sucks__”

So Lagacy auto is like… Hmmm How should we fix this?

Executive A at Lagacy Auto company: “How about we make our own charging network!”

Exec B: “Sounds expensive and risky.”

Exec C: “We gottz no money left after we spent all our money on a fantastic Super Bowl advert.”

Exec B: “What if we make the dealerships pay for it?”

Exec C: “They gottz no money for expensive charging stations.”

Exec B: “Nah, they’ll just have to pay for L2 chargers, they’ll love it when customers have to hang out in their lobby for 4 hours.”

Exec A: “But thats not very useful.”

Exec C: “Doesn’t need to be useful, we just need our numbers to look like Teslas and cars will sell! SHIP IT!”

There IS a point there. If Tesla drives the US OEM EVs into near-oblivion, EVGo, Chargepoint, and all non-NACS chargers have become expensive dunsels (arguably, they are currently in that state, but the incentive to improve will be gone).

 

[Thekiwi]

interesting stats from China.

In the price segment that Tesla sells in (200-300k) top 20 models all types (including iCE).

 

[MABMAB]

Chamath context sorely lacking.
I bet that is old, like back before he SOLD tsla
perhaps 2019.

poster and agree ers do not get it!

just doing my part separating the wheat from the chaff amongst tmc

@Fairchild @insaneoctane @wipster

 

[nativewolf]

The talk about Tesla helping with inflation isn’t wrong. Used car prices affect inflation and I suspect Tesla’s huge price drop will impact a lot of used vehicle sale prices. I’m certain people who are EV curious and looking for used cars check Tesla first. A $14k price drop is likely to bring a lot of those shoppers over to the Tesla aisle at Car Max before they even shop the Prius aisle (Except for the never-Teslas). Shoppers who find a Tesla in their budget, they never make it over to the Prius aisle at all.

Prius, Camry, etc etc.

I suspect this will have a significant knock on affect on the used market as a whole. The Model Y is the 3rd or 4th most popular car in the country. Suddenly people who were shopping used are shopping new. People who were shopping used (and heck new!) Hondas because they thought Teslas were too expensive will likely consider a used Tesla. The whole used market is going to get pummeled and

Though the inflation expert on CNBC disagrees with me. I think he probably doesn’t follow the auto industry too closely.

Soaring used car prices are pushing inflation higher, and there's not much the U.S. can do about it

The potential upside for President Biden is that inflation is expected to moderate organically and as the Fed looks to raise interest rates this year.

www.cnbc.com

View attachment 895937

Used car pricing was crashing this fall, anyone selling an old truck noticed a 50% haircut.

 

[Unpilot]

Thank you CNN.
Until I read that article I thought this forum was filled with nice people from around the world who were interested in making a sustainable and healthier future for humanity. Turns out we, (self included) are just "Jerks"
Informative.... /s

Gotta keep the anger and outrage churning. Their and most other "news" sources depend on it.

 

[Max Plaid]

At my local shopping center this AM, the six charging stations had one Audi, two BMW 3 series, two Volvo XC40 recharge and a Taycan. Every charging station I see has PHEV's present. Maybe most never use charging, but many do. Obviously anecdotal observations don't have much value. I rather suspect that PHEV use of convenience charging is more than the rarity that would justify rating them "a boondoggle'. Rebates for them is another matter entirely, seems foolish when BEV are so accessible.

Yeah, we have the PHEV brigade around here too, they use the public charging spots as 24/7 parking -> plug in and stay as long as they want

 

[Dreadnought]

Is there an over/under on how long the drastic price cuts last to levelize the supply/demand curves?

These numbers a little made up for illustration, but if there were just under 4,500 purchases/deliveries per day last quarter levelized and you're getting 10k orders per day with the price cut with an assumed 6,000 per day production capacity - when do you start to inch prices back up until your orders per day are closer to your production capacity again? How large do you think the surge the last few days has been?

At this point, the inflow of new orders is opaque to anyone outside of Tesla. While cars are no longer strictly built to order, they still don't build a huge inventory on purpose. Existing inventory is rather caused by cancellations and deferred handovers and I don't think that drawdown rates in inventory are a good proxy for order rates.

In the US, the IRA currently prevents small price increments for most Tesla models due to the 55k limit. It would make sense to rake in orders until the backlog grows back to several months, particularly so because of uncertainty around incentives beyond Q1, or until regulation details regarding subsidies both on the consumer and manufacturer side are well known.

For the rest of the world, increments to purchase prices would be possible but they need to wait at least until the initial wave of new orders has subsided until they can gauge the adjusted steady state.

As of today, the US configuration page gives a January/ March estimate for a white RWD Y; same for EU estimates Feb / Mar. With March 31 being two and a half months out, even with order rate at 2x production, it may take several weeks until deliveries clearly slip into April and they have to adjust the web page. An update within the next two weeks would be a strong bullish indicator therefore, IMHO.

 

[EverettRuess]

Wyoming going back to a time long past...

I remember when this board was in the throws of Elon's antics with his new company purchase and posters said that it didn't matter that he was alienating his left leaning enviros that support getting rid of fossil fuels because he will have new customers on the right that will support him. Living in Utah for the last 40 years and I say, after looking at Wyoming's antics, welcome to Elon's new customers.

 

[dhrivnak]

As I wrote earlier , in US there is simply no battery storage supplier who has better prices.

I’m talking about something an electrician will install and warrantee. Not buying off internet and doing everything yourself … even in that, there aren’t that many choices. For eg ecoflow from Amazon costs about the same.

Would be happy to try out anyone who you can point me to with better prices, since Tesla won’t sell me powerwalls without solar.

I went with FranklinWH batteries for my home after trying to get PowerWalls for 3 years. The system is working well and from my analysis the are a small step ahead of Tesla in every metric. AND I can get them.

 

[Skryll]

At my local shopping center this AM, the six charging stations had one Audi, two BMW 3 series, two Volvo XC40 recharge and a Taycan. Every charging station I see has PHEV's present.

Cheap parking spot in prime location by plugging in and not charging ?