Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[phoggy123]

Tesla tells you what you are buying when you purchase FSD (linked image). That is what they need to deliver.

So long as they deliver what they have on the package they should be fine.

Would you characterize that the same as what Elon has sold this as? Because FSD as sold by the CEO was a connection into monetizing your car in a driverless uber manner...You know "Order of magnitude more valuable overnight". Elon says alot of things but my point is 10-15K is a ton of money and potentially orphaning this investment by customers is sketchy at best.

It very well might be amazing with HW3 and cover everything people need to the point of not paying attention ever, but Tesla needs to establish this.

 

[Ogre]

Would you characterize that the same as what Elon has sold this as? Because FSD as sold by the CEO was a connection into monetizing your car in a driverless uber manner...You know "Order of magnitude more valuable overnight". Elon says alot of things but my point is 10-15K is a ton of money and potentially orphaning this investment by customers is sketchy at best.

It very well might be amazing with HW3 and cover everything people need to the point of not paying attention ever, but Tesla needs to establish this.

I’ll flip this. The above was my thoughts on the legal side. This is my thoughts on the whole… mess.

When I bought my car I didn’t get FSD because it wasn’t fully baked, glad I skipped it. I agree, I’d be quite frustrated at this point to find out my dream of napping on the way home from a mountain bike ride would require another car and another purchase. I think the writing has been on the wall about this for years though. My personal choice to skip it was based on the level of existing frustration 2+ years ago.

Tesla really shouldn’t have pushed FSD nearly as hard as they did. They’ve been “Selling” a product for 5+ years and haven’t been able to deliver it. Yes, some of the features exist, but lots of people thought they would see the final product much sooner. People bought cars with this feature and sold them, people leased cars with this feature presumably based on the assumption it would come before their lease term ended.

My long winded way of saying I tend to agree with your sentiment, but I’m not sure legally Tesla is on the hook here.

 

[FielderJones]

Tesla tells you what you are buying when you purchase FSD (linked image). That is what they need to deliver.

So long as they deliver what they have on the package they should be fine.

Summon and smart summon have been broken on my 2019 Model 3 with EAP for some time. But I'm running HW 2.5.

 

[EQC_]

Random question that maybe somebody here will have an answer to:

Does anybody know why there haven't been any new satellite images of the various factory sites at buildingtesla.com in over two months now?

The site indicates it last checked for new photos on Jan 3, 2023, but the newest photo of any factory is October 27, 2022.

I like to check these photos occasionally to get a quick look at factory progress (without having to watch a full fly-over video, etc.). Seems odd that no updated photos have been available for over 2 months now...

It looks like buildingtesla.com is getting back to normal.

After a few months without updates on any of overhead factory photos, there are some February updates for:
Fremont
Gigafactory 2 (New York)
Gigafactory 4 (Berlin)
Giga Texas
Lathrop buildings
Shipping Pier 80

 

[Rammstein]

I was sold on the idea that my car with HW3 would eventually be robotaxi capable and it could go make money for me. Elon said this many times. If that’s not the case then there should be something given back.

 

[Curt Renz]

"White House, Tesla partnership ‘a great opportunity,’ Sec. Buttigieg says"​

Yahoo - today:

 

[Singuy]

I was sold on the idea that my car with HW3 would eventually be robotaxi capable and it could go make money for me. Elon said this many times. If that’s not the case then there should be something given back.

Go be like this guy and make some money then.

 

[bkp_duke]

They need to charge more for HW4 cars then to make this look different. If the FSD package is the same price on HW4 than HW3, but HW3 can do less they are going to get rightfully sued. I think they should at a minimum offer a route to refund the FSD piece to Enhanced AP or something less.

Maybe HW4 cars will only be subscription...

Oh please. Do you go to your Apple store and demand they give you an iPhone 14 to replace your iPhone 8? No.

Technology evolves, early (or earlier) adopters would never REASONABLY assume HW3 would have the same feature set as HW4.

 

[dhanson865]

Weird thought here.

It’s likely a big percentage of cars with the previous FSD agreement which promised full Robotaxi, also come with lifetime unlimited Supercharging.

If HW2.5 & HW3 cannot support Robotaxi, Tesla can quietly remove these cars from the road, switch out the FSD requirement so it’s just ADAS, remove the lifetime Supercharging, and put them back on the road and retire all that liability.

At some point, Tesla is going to have to settle with the remaining owners who have these older cars with the broader definition of FSD. This may be a way to preempt that cheaply.

I agree and I think $5000 is a fair deal for the old car owners, especially so when hw4 is in the mix. Going from HW 2.5 to HW 4 at the start of the HW 4 cycle would be a good time to upgrade.

 

[ShareLofty]

Tesla needs to be aware of this perception and allow those that don't see 10-15K worth of ability to get their money back.

Never happening.

 

[wipster]

I find it encouraging that even a FUD 'recall' did not affect $TSLA much today. This would have easily dropped the stock <%5 back in late 2022

You were saying?

 

[EVMeister]

You were saying?

Look at what is happening to the NASDAQ.

 

[larmor]

"White House, Tesla partnership ‘a great opportunity,’ Sec. Buttigieg says"​

Yahoo - today:

White house says "Tesla" (insert Beavis and Butthead clip)

 

[wipster]

Look at what is happening to the NASDAQ.

Nothing compared to Tesla, but that's typical.

 

[printf42]

Our society has normalized over-the-speed-limit driving. Seems like NHTSA is slowly making FSD unappealing by legal nannying it to death.

Are Blue Cruise and SuperCruise put under similar constraints? For that matter every cruise control mechanic on the planet. Most of modern bersions are aware of speed and this constraint could easily apply to them. There is no speed limit above 75 MPH in the US…

“NHTSA announced recall of most cars manufactured since 1910, new research found cars could go over speed limits if driver press acceleration paddles for too long, increasing risk of crash. All vehicles capable of going over 75mph would be retrofitted with a speed limiter to improve public safety.”

LoL

 

[Singuy]

I think that recall nailed it. We have had issues with all those things. Especially being in the wrong lane at an intersection (although since a couple updates ago it’s not 100 percent wrong all the time now). But the speed limit thing will get you a ticket for sure when speed limit changes to a lower number.

Rolling stops.,, meh,, sometimes. Yellow lights can be on the edge sometime but not a biggy.

Still. Glad to see they were forced to fix the wrong lane thingy. Kinda liking this NHTSA over watch. .

This recall is a pretty much "fix fsd beta so it makes no more mistakes" kind of recall. It's fine as no car need to be grounded or software limited as recall is being fixed...which can take a few years. Our car with the explosive shrapnel airbags had a backorder for multiple years and I didn't get the recall fixed for at least 2 years. Reading some of the descriptions like "fix going straight at a turning lane at an intersection" is not something they can fix in a week because there are like thousands of intersections all over the US FSD beta may or may not fail.

 

[Gigapress]

The last update from Tesla on HW3 on the Q4 call three weeks ago was that HW3 was sufficient for being substantially safer than a human at driving. Why speculate about it not being enough unless we get more information? Tesla’s expectation might be wrong but they have a lot more relevant information than any of us do.

Also FSD Beta is still rapidly evolving and I’m pretty sure optimizing it for taking up less memory and computation is not the priority right now. This makes it difficult to determine how much true power HW3 actually has for perception and planning.

 

[Ogre]

The last update from Tesla on HW3 on the Q4 call three weeks ago was that HW3 was sufficient for being substantially safer than a human at driving. Why speculate about it not being enough unless we get more information? Tesla’s expectation might be wrong but they have a lot more relevant information than any of us do.

Also FSD Beta is still rapidly evolving and I’m pretty sure optimizing it for taking up less memory and computation is not the priority right now. This makes it difficult to determine how much true power HW3 actually has for perception and planning.

Good point.

We haven’t even seen widespread use of v11 yet.

 

[JRP3]

Go be like this guy and make some money then.

How is that the robotaxi he was expecting? Driving for Uber isn't the same thing.

 

[JRP3]

"White House, Tesla partnership ‘a great opportunity,’ Sec. Buttigieg says"

He had an excellent response to the "danger" of automated driving technology.