which is quite good in Europe, it's not like in the US by any means
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Zach on the earnings call said the cost of lithium in a Tesla is around 500 dollars worth per car . So even if lithium goes to zero, the -3k price cut wouldn't cover it.
Musk on his twitter space with whole Mars did say he rather maximize volume than maximize profit. In his mind profit will come after sales due to fsd. But affordability of the actual car takes priority.
Nope, bmw software does not plan your route with charging in mind currently. So you'll gave to do some planning just to make that road trip.
Incorrect. Check with your accountant, because I'm not one. Following is not advice.
Taxes are not some, wait until the end of year, then be surprised thing (well, they can be, but one would likely not like the surprise)
Taxes are paid as money is earned. W-2 employees and retirees have withholding, 1099 contractors and stock traders have quarterly estimated payments.
Anyone who benefits fully from the $7,500 credit will have a tax bill (meaning total for the year, not April 15th make up payment) of at least $7,500. They can adjust adjust their withholding/ payments now to avoid a $7,500 overpayment and refund at the end of the year.
Two options:
1) reduce withholding to $0 (or allowable minimum) until the difference reaches $7,500, then restore it. One can do this before buying the car to add to the down payment which reduces the monthly payment. Or, one can do this after purchase to reduce the loan (assuming favorable prepayment terms). After doesn't reduce the monthly payment going forward (unless refinanced), but does have the side effect of reducing overall interest because the monthly payment doesn't change, resulting in more principle paid each month.
2) reduce withholding by $7,500/months_left_in_year, then reset Jan 1st. This effectively reduces the monthly payments for the first year, but doesn't help payments after that unless applied as a loan prepayment (with favorable terms), see also refinance.
99% of the people have no idea how to manipulate the w2. Most are taught the withholding number = number of dependent, and believes manipulation of this number gets you audited by the IRS if you don't have the number of dependents. Financial literacy is not American's forte.
When? At current spot 164000 CNY price, SR LFP battery needs 600$ worth of lithium just for charge transfer, real life batteries need more lithium (how much have no idea, impossbile to find easily)
nominated for "Moderators' Choice: Posts of Particular Merit"
Why? Concise and objective evidence that Tesla is managing 21st Century Marketing.
And they will learn by everyone saying they can only get the credit when they file taxes next year?
Why not be accurate and say it requires a calculation and submitting two forms to one's employer? No forms needed if self employed.
FUDnancials don't help anyone, education does.
See also: range, reliability, charging, flammability (we just covered cost)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...But there were no cuts to Model Y regarding the IRA on April 18th.... so that does not explain this at all for the Y. (It does for the 3 RWD, but I think that one was largely expected)
Just saying how I see it. Person walks in, do the monthly payment calculation, can't afford it and walks out so the 7500 dollar incentive is not as effective as an upfront price cut for affordability sake.
But yeah if this is a world where Americans has savings, are not trying to "afford" a monthly payment, and has complete understanding of taxes then sure..the 7500 dollars is all you need.
All IRS cares about is that your withholding is within a certain threshold by January 15th after the end of the tax year. Need to at least withhold by that time at least as much as previous year taxes, or 90% of the tax year taxes. This is to avoid penalties. Remember refunds are bad. Even if you under withhold you can make an extra payment as long as IRS receives before January 15th to avoid penalties.
Yes, I teach a finance class and have yet to find one person who knows how withholdings work. It's a question I ask my students everytime and they just look at me with a stare. These are all post college old earning a paycheck already, not 16 year olds.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
If your finances are so tight that $7500, spread over what is commonly a 60 month or longer loan, will break you- maybe a brand new car isn't a good idea?
In any event- isn't this "fixed" next year when the IRA credit becomes a point of sale rebate?
Exactly... when I got my $7500 credit back in 2018 it mostly took the form of "lower than normal tax bill in April"- not a refund..... why give the IRS an interest free loan all year when you can take one from them instead?
Mostly. That works for withholding, but not for quarterly payments (unless income was also lumpy).
This is getting too US tax specific...
This earnings report worries me. With all the moving parts I could easily see a miss. Even Rob @ Tesla Daily is forecasting lower numbers then Wall Street consensus.
Companies like HR Block, TurboTax, etc. advertisements. People have been programmed to work to get refunds not to tax plan.
Well we are talking about the US $7500 tax credit.
Just saw the news of the price cuts. To me this is mismanaged. The price cuts a week or so ago shouldnt have happened. Should have waited unto the Tax Credit change occurred yesterday and then put in price changes today. Changing every week or so encourages people to delay purchase as long as possible. Just like raising prices encourages people to purchase as quickly as possible.
No one ever said the disruption was not going to be bloody. The catastrophe is always in the future but then suddenly arrives, much like bankruptcy. And EM doesn’t care if it is coming up too fast and messing with your SP projections. He certainly didn’t ask me.
Tesla is insulated in a fortress balance sheet and ready to tread water while expanding production for years to sell cars at any price (almost) necessary. People will buy other car companies to be different or for brand loyalty, and I understand that. But the plan is to arrive at the point where anyone deciding to buy a new car based on best value and utility will always choose Tesla and most importantly, will always choose a BEV.
Tesla is insulated in a fortress balance sheet and ready to tread water while expanding production for years to sell cars at any price (almost) necessary. People will buy other car companies to be different or for brand loyalty, and I understand that. But the plan is to arrive at the point where anyone deciding to buy a new car based on best value and utility will always choose Tesla and most importantly, will always choose a BEV.
I did not disagree with your post, but: As an AAPL shareholder since iPhone appeared, back in "Think Different" advertising days, I assert that AAPL shareholders study every reported or otherwise discernible AAPL revenue, expense, cash flow and margin component, just as we do for TSLA.
The principle differences, IMHO:
1)are that the AAPL ones have been doing this much longer than have the TSLA ones;
2)) we TSLA ones are usually more emotionally obsessive about the TSLA mission than we are with AAPL ecosystem, which we admire greatly but do not consider it to be a mater of planetary survival;
3) and after all, long term AAPL shareholders often, like me, live largely on AAPL dividends, so we could not rationally sell without incurring excessive taxation, while;
4) TSLA has never had a dividend and will not any time soon, so obsession on every aspect of future development is our only path towards economic benefit, even though, the last phrase of point 3 applies to everyone who's bought TSLA before 2020 or so.
Some of us may think that obsessive attention to warranty cost development, costs of shipping, manufacturing cost detail, days on hand, storage evolution and so on might be over-the-top, especially since almost no securities analysts even come close to that detail.
So, why is that obsession a necessary thing? One reason really, and it is simple: Tesla threatens the established economic powers in every country. Oil companies, auto dealers, auto manufacturers, labor unions who see jobs disappearing, electric utilities that price on 'cost plus', most taxation jurisdictions that base revenue of taxing those threatened industries Further, politicians everywhere love contributions, coming from all those threatened parties.
Battling FUD may be the crucial motivation for this obsession. After all, that list included most of the interest groups tat would prefer that TSLA die.
That is why TSLA is the most shorted security in the world;
That is why entities such as the SEC really don't want to favor TSLA;
That is why US President Biden really does not want to mention Tesla;
That is also why Renault, among others, are openly terrified to see Tesla pricing power.
Finally, how does, say, Boeing feel about SpaceX?
Because Tesla is also a Musk enterprise remains diligent, nay, obsessive, may be our only choice.
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