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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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This weekend I went to my local barber, a self-identified "petrol head". Likes loud engines and motorcycles because they go vroom.

He doesn't know I drive a Tesla (I don't share too much when I can avoid it), and we got talking about the topic of the transition to BEV's.

His opinion was that the transition will "never happen". I asked why he thought so and the reply was "the purchase price of BEV's is not coming down like they intended to, and will never come down enough." (reason: can't scale batteries, rare materials etc etc)

I don't argue against a blank wall so I didn't explain Tesla's next generation platform to him. I will do so in a few years when they are actually driving around and are available for purchase.

Some people cannot extrapolate at all. They are truly fixed upon what exists now and how things happen now. These are the same people that thought personal computers would never find their way into everybody's homes, that mobile phones were forever a toy for the rich, and that smartphones were useless because of touchscreen and because everyone has internet on their PC at home.

Just wanted to share this observation since on TMC we generally overestimate the knowledge of the general public regarding BEV's/the transition/the collapse of ICE sales/ etcetera.

As long as BEV's don't make up for 50% of new car sales, a large group of people will not accept the fact that we will in fact transition to BEV's, never to return. With gasoline versus diesel versus liquid natural gas there has been a push/pull transition in the last few decades depending on what fuel is cheaper in certain countries/states and the resale value this brings to said vehicles. Only in the last five years has the value of diesel cars truly plummetted since now gasoline is seen as "better for the environment" than diesel.

Don't forget this when making investing decisions. To most people Tesla is merely a blip on the radar right now. A small company with novelty cars they don't want because "never heard of them".

This will change rapidly but we're not as close as many here think we are.

So even if we leave FSD out of the picture, the Tesla brand still has lots of room to grow. Again I'm imagining the next generation platform to be the biggest driver in getting Tesla from being seen as a "niche" car maker to an established car maker (in the eyes of the masses), like how right now Toyota or Volkswagen is perceived.

I stay very bullish.

P.S.: even though FSD timelines are polarizing, the above is applicable to FSD also. Most people cannot extrapolate: "FSD is terrible now, so will never work." Only when FSD is recognized/allowed by some state government will these people start considering full autonomy exists and can possibly play a role in their daily lives. Looking at the (r)evolution of the internet since the 1990's until now, a mere thirty years, I cannot with a straight face support the claims that FSD is something that will (only) happen in the far future (+10years away).

My personal FSD timeline is it will be achieved within three years from now. (December 2025) Seems a long time compared to Elons predictions but in the grand scheme of things that is nothing.
Who will achieve autonomy first? "Oh Tesla's going to win level 5." - George Hotz. Jim Keller seems to agree.

And I'm equally optimistic regarding Optimus. Possibly even more so. This company can change the world. (and already has, actually)

TL;DR: #bullish
I deal with this all the time, "Its not a completed project today, therefore it can never be" . I mean when I first got AOL, the concept of streaming HD video to nearly every home int he world seemed insane. 30 years later we would be a broken society without this feature. Just because it's not perfect today, doesnt mean there isn't relentless incremental improvement.
 
I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Elon has a moderately decent track record on "running a successful company".

I'm sure he appreciates the feedback from people who haven't created a single company as large as his first successful company though.
He netted US$22 million for his share when Zip2 was sold to Compaq. If this is to be the measure, just skip the inflation adjustment as see that a $22 million gain must be deemed relevant. Honestly, I'm not convinced that is a good measure of intellectual value:
 
He netted US$22 million for his share when Zip2 was sold to Compaq. If this is to be the measure, just skip the inflation adjustment as see that a $22 million gain must be deemed relevant. Honestly, I'm not convinced that is a good measure of intellectual value:
Call me an idiot all day long for a $22 million gain. Almost 40 million in todays dollars.
 
This weekend I went to my local barber, a self-identified "petrol head". Likes loud engines and motorcycles because they go vroom.

He doesn't know I drive a Tesla (I don't share too much when I can avoid it), and we got talking about the topic of the transition to BEV's.

His opinion was that the transition will "never happen". I asked why he thought so and the reply was "the purchase price of BEV's is not coming down like they intended to, and will never come down enough." (reason: can't scale batteries, rare materials etc etc)

I don't argue against a blank wall so I didn't explain Tesla's next generation platform to him. I will do so in a few years when they are actually driving around and are available for purchase.

Some people cannot extrapolate at all. They are truly fixed upon what exists now and how things happen now. These are the same people that thought personal computers would never find their way into everybody's homes, that mobile phones were forever a toy for the rich, and that smartphones were useless because of touchscreen and because everyone has internet on their PC at home.

Just wanted to share this observation since on TMC we generally overestimate the knowledge of the general public regarding BEV's/the transition/the collapse of ICE sales/ etcetera.

As long as BEV's don't make up for 50% of new car sales, a large group of people will not accept the fact that we will in fact transition to BEV's, never to return. With gasoline versus diesel versus liquid natural gas there has been a push/pull transition in the last few decades depending on what fuel is cheaper in certain countries/states and the resale value this brings to said vehicles. Only in the last five years has the value of diesel cars truly plummetted since now gasoline is seen as "better for the environment" than diesel.

Don't forget this when making investing decisions. To most people Tesla is merely a blip on the radar right now. A small company with novelty cars they don't want because "never heard of them".

This will change rapidly but we're not as close as many here think we are.

So even if we leave FSD out of the picture, the Tesla brand still has lots of room to grow. Again I'm imagining the next generation platform to be the biggest driver in getting Tesla from being seen as a "niche" car maker to an established car maker (in the eyes of the masses), like how right now Toyota or Volkswagen is perceived.

I stay very bullish.

P.S.: even though FSD timelines are polarizing, the above is applicable to FSD also. Most people cannot extrapolate: "FSD is terrible now, so will never work." Only when FSD is recognized/allowed by some state government will these people start considering full autonomy exists and can possibly play a role in their daily lives. Looking at the (r)evolution of the internet since the 1990's until now, a mere thirty years, I cannot with a straight face support the claims that FSD is something that will (only) happen in the far future (+10years away).

My personal FSD timeline is it will be achieved within three years from now. (December 2025) Seems a long time compared to Elons predictions but in the grand scheme of things that is nothing.
Who will achieve autonomy first? "Oh Tesla's going to win level 5." - George Hotz. Jim Keller seems to agree.

And I'm equally optimistic regarding Optimus. Possibly even more so. This company can change the world. (and already has, actually)

TL;DR: #bullish
Absurd Corroboration Department (actual quotations from conversations I have had):
1. "but how can you use an electric car, if it rains you'll be shocked";
2. "where do you put the gasoline?";
3. "how often do you need to change the oil?";
Those happened, but, none of those comments were from anybody who'd actually buy a car since all three were from people over age 80. In context all three were in the presence of a young child who quite gently explained the errors. She is now 12 years old and has developed a passion for certain video games, which she says are available in Teslas. I have no notion if she's right or wrong and I note she lives in a country without Tesla sales.

It does remain interesting that the pace of technological change is becoming faster and faster, and Tesla is far ahead of the adoption curve. Frankly I rather suspect the truthful addressable market for Tesla is growing exponentially as it reaches adulthood. Without question trends towards lower driving license holding are rising globally, and desire to own cars is lowering too. The residual demand, though, is enormous and growing fast. Whether the Luddities can see it or not is irrelevant, The ICE age is declining rapidly.

Of course that does not mean TSLA shares will grow to reflect all that. Luddites still are largely in control of press, media and politics almost everywhere. Despite that Norway and California ARE leading indicators. IMHO, legislation helps, no question, but adoption grows mostly with demonstrated desirability and accessibility.

As Elon said, Tesla will rapidly enter new markets that may be small individually but will in aggregate be large. The next couple fo years will see Tesla become nearly global. All by itself that will change ideas and 'lift all boats', so long as, of course, those 'boats' can float. We can debate which companies will survive and which will thrive. We already know there will be Chinese, micro options from many countries plus Tesla, but we already see industrial and bus fleets moving towards faster adoption that cars, and public utilities moving rapidly too. While we mostly don't cover those, we might think a bit about receptivity for BEV's from people who've ridden electric busses, driven them, or approved them.
 
⚡⚡⚡

Powerwall can stabilize the grid by feeding power into the system in areas with high demand, helping reduce fossil fuel-based power generation. As part of a pilot project with TransnetBW in Germany—the first in continental Europe—, Powerwall owners successfully contributed renewable energy to help support key sections of the grid. This project lays the foundation for a sustainable grid that's supported by clean community power.



Not the first pilot project, the Dutch company Eneco beat ze Germans by *seven* years:


Not my point however, availability has been zero in Europe for years. Hopefully that is going to change now.

Germany is a logical first market because they don’t have net metering and most domestic solar installs are including a home battery these days.
Here’s hoping for a European Megapack and Powerwall factory soon.
 
It was a really good focus group that convinced Hewlett Packard there was no future for hand held calculators because slide rules were cheaper, faster and more capable. The focus group was made up of engineers. This one really did happen! Luckily it was just before I landed in the place that did it. Had I been I'd probably have made the mistake. By the time I arrived I already had my Bowmore Brain.

How did you find out about the Bowmore Brain? Ans: advertising.

My father was in the marketing research field when I was growing up. His company had a product called "day after recall." They'd run ads in test markets and then call 1,000 people (or enough to get a good sample size) to see what they remembered about the ad that they saw. That was 60 years ago. You don't spend a billion dollars splashing ads around hoping that some of it sticks. Advertising is a science. Tesla will know within hours if a small number of ads in a test market are working or not.

I know what many of you are thinking: if we run even a few test ads then we won't be able to boast that we don't advertise. Advertising is not a dirty business as many here seem too think. Imagine how off-putting it is to all the people in the world who are in sales or marketing to have Tesla boasting that they don't lower themselves to participate in these industries. Time to lose the superior attitude.
 
I did. I emailed her at [email protected] .

Such ignorance is an argument for educational advertising by Tesla.
Everything in the story feels accurate. If I had to use anything but Superchargers when traveling, I’d bag EVs, too.
The staggering ignorance is the federal government not understanding the obvious differences in the functionality of the options for charging. They should have cut a deal with Tesla and dumped most of the money now being used on tax credits into simply expanding the Supercharger system and retrofitting the existing ones to fit all vehicles and just let Tesla run US charging. No one else seems capable.
 
I deal with this all the time, "Its not a completed project today, therefore it can never be" . I mean when I first got AOL, the concept of streaming HD video to nearly every home int he world seemed insane. 30 years later we would be a broken society without this feature. Just because it's not perfect today, doesnt mean there isn't relentless incremental improvement.
The number of things that, when they occurred at the time, I thought were stupid but turned out great, is embarrassingly large. I remember when Google bought YouTube for many $B and thought, what were they thinking? I now use it everyday. It took me a while to get onto the Apple iPhone bandwagon, same for iPad (my mother in law was an earlier adopter of the iPad than I was and I’m a tech head, I’m using an iPad to write this right now).

At least we can pat ourselves on the back for seeing some trends early enough, like EVs!
 
...

How did you find out about the Bowmore Brain? Ans: advertising.

My father was in the marketing research field when I was growing up. His company had a product called "day after recall." They'd run ads in test markets and then call 1,000 people (or enough to get a good sample size) to see what they remembered about the ad that they saw. That was 60 years ago. You don't spend a billion dollars splashing ads around hoping that some of it sticks. Advertising is a science. Tesla will know within hours if a small number of ads in a test market are working or not.

I know what many of you are thinking: if we run even a few test ads then we won't be able to boast that we don't advertise. Advertising is not a dirty business as many here seem too think. Imagine how off-putting it is to all the people in the world who are in sales or marketing to have Tesla boasting that they don't lower themselves to participate in these industries. Time to lose the superior attitude.
No! I found out about it through a placement at Columbia University.

As for the recall questions and much else. Until the advent of large scale Internet search much of the advertising industry ignored 'direct marketing', as it was known then because it was labor intensive, processing intensive and...above all...cheap. Advertising agencies made maoneyy creating advertising and placing ads. They did print ads, even aided local newpaspaer placements and billboards, but those were much less lucrative.

I learned most of my craft in those advertising days and they were wondrous. Big budgets, fancy locations and focus groups plus all kinds of metrics to justify all that.

Tomes change, now very precise internet placements are the huge money spinners.
Companies like Tesla manage to capture social media and search as well as anyone can.

Your father and I were of a different world. To be sure, the big budgets still exist as well as carefully designed metrics that measure everything other than direct sales results, because advertising actually cannot quite manage to tie cause and effect so precisely.

internet, social media, and direct targeting can and does have those metrics. Their weakness is that people who do not understand them mostly don't realize they're happening and often don't actually believe them. That is the dilemma that makes people want advertising, so they can see their own pitch themselves on TV. Sadly, that wastes money.
 
Absurd Corroboration Department (actual quotations from conversations I have had):
1. "but how can you use an electric car, if it rains you'll be shocked";
2. "where do you put the gasoline?";
3. "how often do you need to change the oil?";
Those happened, but, none of those comments were from anybody who'd actually buy a car since all three were from people over age 80. In context all three were in the presence of a young child who quite gently explained the errors. She is now 12 years old and has developed a passion for certain video games, which she says are available in Teslas. I have no notion if she's right or wrong and I note she lives in a country without Tesla sales.

It does remain interesting that the pace of technological change is becoming faster and faster, and Tesla is far ahead of the adoption curve. Frankly I rather suspect the truthful addressable market for Tesla is growing exponentially as it reaches adulthood. Without question trends towards lower driving license holding are rising globally, and desire to own cars is lowering too. The residual demand, though, is enormous and growing fast. Whether the Luddities can see it or not is irrelevant, The ICE age is declining rapidly.

Of course that does not mean TSLA shares will grow to reflect all that. Luddites still are largely in control of press, media and politics almost everywhere. Despite that Norway and California ARE leading indicators. IMHO, legislation helps, no question, but adoption grows mostly with demonstrated desirability and accessibility.

As Elon said, Tesla will rapidly enter new markets that may be small individually but will in aggregate be large. The next couple fo years will see Tesla become nearly global. All by itself that will change ideas and 'lift all boats', so long as, of course, those 'boats' can float. We can debate which companies will survive and which will thrive. We already know there will be Chinese, micro options from many countries plus Tesla, but we already see industrial and bus fleets moving towards faster adoption that cars, and public utilities moving rapidly too. While we mostly don't cover those, we might think a bit about receptivity for BEV's from people who've ridden electric busses, driven them, or approved them.
I started driving Uber a couple of weekends ago. So far after giving about 45 rides (probably 60 passengers), no one has had a good understanding of Tesla, electric cars, charging, or the current state of battery technology.
 
Mongo notes:

IRA impact, reduced material costs:


Gross margin automotive including leasing and regulatory credits was 21.1%

Inventory growth:View attachment 931300
View attachment 931301

Segment growth and regionality:
View attachment 931299

Cost of automotive sales impacts:


CapEx estimated at around $2B a quarter on average through 2025:


Shift in investments to governmental from money market:
View attachment 931302
Investment timing:
View attachment 931303
Thanks for the summary. It all kinda looks good to me, don’t see any red flags here.
 
I started driving Uber a couple of weekends ago. So far after giving about 45 rides (probably 60 passengers), no one has had a good understanding of Tesla, electric cars, charging, or the current state of battery technology.
Out of curiosity, what was your reason for giving Uber rides? Other than doing a Tesla sentiment analysis, I mean 😄

And also, which city are you driving in?
 
Not the first pilot project, the Dutch company Eneco beat ze Germans by *seven* years:


Not my point however, availability has been zero in Europe for years. Hopefully that is going to change now.

Germany is a logical first market because they don’t have net metering and most domestic solar installs are including a home battery these days.
Here’s hoping for a European Megapack and Powerwall factory soon.
Just got my Powerwall in Scotland after a 2 year wait. They seem to be turning up now