Yes, it sure seemed to me that Elon was referring to his personal situation and not thinking more broadly.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Agreed.
As a very early S Owner (May 2013 delivery... a decade this month!), I've received new features, performance upgrades, breaks on HW upgrades, have free supercharging grandfathered in, etc...
My car gets FW upgrades 10 years later. I don't think I have any other consumer device that does that.
Well, I guess a snapshot of Tesla before and after advertising will be informative!
Paracelsus
Active Member
This is a most interesting post @nativewolf because the timeline for maximizing shareholder value is undefined. Thus it is both correct and incorrect IMO.
Elon/TSLA have intentionally broken the ‘preferred’ Wall Street business model of maximizing short-term profits for shareholder value. The “do whatever you need to do to make weekly, monthly, quarterly, and annual guidance” model. Elon/TSLA have instead prioritized the Long Game - which is far more supportive of all phases of the business and its employees on their path towards accomplishing each phase of each new Master Plan. And we have witnessed the results along the way as we watch what TSLA has done compared to other companies in its relatively short existence.
And those that stick to the ‘Buy and Hold’ recipe that Elon has always recommended have been well rewarded. Thus, the Brokerage accounts of many TSLA HODL investors would strongly suggest Elon has strongly worked to maximize shareholder value when compared to other renewable/sustainability and/or automotive investments.
However if you are suggesting we view TSLA as a shorter-term investment (as Elon has cautioned us against, but Wall Street of course still favors in all arenas), your view would be easily validated by looking only at the timelines where TSLA traded flat for many quarters while other stocks moved on up - you know, those periods of time where the Spring was coiling tighter and tighter! And for those timelines we have clearly seen the frustration and even some punishment of TSLA and Elon from WS analysts and their media outlets as a result, because they are of course willing to trade long-term success for short-term gains. They would likely even trade the future of the company and it’s very existence for a couple quarters of beating estimates IMO.
But as we watched Elon discussing TSLA taking on the once-insurmountable goals of Master Plan Part 3 yesterday, and knowing the World was watching closely and falling into step, we were also watching a very clear display that the Wall Street model is absolutely wrong and Elon/TSLA were absolutely right. And that allowing Greed to decide who wins and loses by favoring short-term earnings over long term stability and sustainability is extremely harmful for People and Planet.
Long term he's aiming to make Tesla the most valuable company in the world. And he seems to be on track when you look at things like GM, growth rate, new product roadmap, master plan part 3, etc...
Would you rather have a disingenuous CEO that's focused on the stock price being a few percentage points higher next quarter at the expense of long term value, or one focused on increasing the company value by an order of magnitude in the next 5-10 years?
I know my answer...
Perhaps, perhaps not. Proving causation is *very* different than demonstrating correlation.
In a lab, you would want to rerun the exact same experiment both with and without the proposed item being studied, perfectly controlling for all other variables (which is hard to do even in the best laboratories). In the real world, where “the lab” is the real universe, humans have no way to rewind back and have everything else in the universe happen again (same macro environment, events, etc) both with and without something like advertising to see if it is causality or correlation. Even attempts such as “advertise in this part of Europe but not in that part of Europe and attempt to control for the differences between them to see if advertising made a difference over some period of time” are challenging, and often reveal more about the person setting up the experiment (by examining what they chose to control for and how they justified claiming equivalence or adjusted for in what they cannot control for) than revealing data about the experiment itself. True for advertising and a great many other things. We only truly know the outcome of what was done, not the outcome of what was not done to really know if it would have been better or worse.
Thank you for the full quotes. Therein lies the problem.
TESLA IS NOT A 100% PRIVATELY-OWNED COMPANY. On the contrary, it is a PUBLIC COMPANY. WE own it.
Elon has a fiduciary responsibility to US and what he says and does matters to the company that WE own.
His public statements have consequences and there is a large (and growing!) subset of the TAM that will NOT buy any Tesla product because of Elon's unhinged comments. We know of at least one couple that have sold their Model Y Performance and will not buy another Tesla (or solar, or HVAC, etc.) as a result.
Elon's comments are many, but some of the most recent/damaging come to mind:
1. House Speaker Pelosi's husband attacked by a random whack job, yet Elon writes/alludes that " . . . there's more to the story." [paraphrased]
Elon turns out to be 100% incorrect.
2. Tech millionaire knifed to death by someone he knew in San Francisco.
Elon posts comments/assumptions that turn out to be 100% incorrect.
3. Elon Musk tweets, then deletes, meme comparing Trudeau to Hitler
4. Too many to count re: COVID being a minor concern . . . .
And more fallout from just last night's interview:
Twitter owner Elon Musk on Tuesday doubled down on his assertion there is “no proof” the swastika-tattooed man suspected of killing eight people at an Allen, Texas, mall earlier this month was a white supremacist.
“I think it was incorrectly ascribed to be a white supremacist action,” Musk told CNBC’s David Faber. “I’m saying that I thought ascribing it to white supremacy was bullshit.”
The suspect, Mauricio Garcia, was shot dead by police during the attack in which he reportedly wore a patch with the text “RWDS” ― short for “Right Wing Death Squad.”
“We do know that he had neo-Nazi ideation. He had patches. He had tattoos. Even his signature verified that,” said Hank Sibley, North Texas regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety.
Garcia also allegedly posted neo-Nazi content online. [truncated]
Source:
Elon Musk Cooks Up Unbelievable Claim About Swastika-Tattooed Texas Mall Shooter
Twitter’s billionaire owner also defended his attacks on investor and Jewish Holocaust survivor George Soros, calling himself a “pro-Semite, if anything.”
WHAT is Elon's major malfunction here? WHAT if the value of wading into the motivations of a mass murderer?!? How can someone so brilliant be so simultaneously stupid and inept?
In closing, Elon needlessly HARMS THE MISSION with his stream-of-consciousness commentary, much of which is just plain factually incorrect and juvenile. He continues to shoot himself (and us) in the foot.
TESLA is a PUBLIC company, not his personal play thing.
If he doesn't like it, too bad--perhaps he can take TSLA private and just piss off his private shareholders, but that ship has long since sailed . . . .
Until then, someone on the Board of Directors needs to tell Elon to control his Twitter fingers and his mouth. Period.
p.s. We're 100% "in" with THE MISSION. We've been TSLA, and Tesla, owners since 2013, but it's enough. At any other company, with any other BoD, Elon would have been fired long ago.
Elon needs to stop with the stupid public commentary on whatever strikes his fancy at all hours of the day and night. Now.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes, I took his statement to be that he doesn't care about losing money, i.e. being fined. I don't think he was referring to possible broader effects of his words.
Removed the butt-hurt part to toss a counterpoint- I buy more based on his constant commentary.
I don't want stock in a company with a CEO who accepts credit and further perpetuates a lie (GM).
edit: added second part and removed the word 'tweet'
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Especially given Elon's view that Optimus/Robotics may ultimately be larger than the auto side of the house...
Enough!
If you want to vent your personal frustration about what Elon says on Twitter and in the media you can go to the special place we've reserved for this in the Off Topic subforum.
If you want to vent your personal frustration about what Elon says on Twitter and in the media you can go to the special place we've reserved for this in the Off Topic subforum.
Elon is going to be Elon. I'll gladly take conspiracy theorist Elon over stock price is too high Elon any day.Thank you for the full quotes. Therein lies the problem.
TESLA IS NOT A 100% PRIVATELY-OWNED COMPANY. On the contrary, it is a PUBLIC COMPANY. WE own it.
Elon has a fiduciary responsibility to US and what he says and does matters to the company that WE own.
His public statements have consequences and there is a large (and growing!) subset of the TAM that will NOT buy any Tesla product because of Elon's unhinged comments. We know of at least one couple that have sold their Model Y Performance and will not buy another Tesla (or solar, or HVAC, etc.) as a result.
Elon's comments are many, but some of the most recent/damaging come to mind:
1. House Speaker Pelosi's husband attacked by a random whack job, yet Elon writes/alludes that " . . . there's more to the story." [paraphrased]
Elon turns out to be 100% incorrect.
2. Tech millionaire knifed to death by someone he knew in San Francisco.
Elon posts comments/assumptions that turn out to be 100% incorrect.
3. Elon Musk tweets, then deletes, meme comparing Trudeau to Hitler
4. Too many to count re: COVID being a minor concern . . . .
And more fallout from just last night's interview:
Twitter owner Elon Musk on Tuesday doubled down on his assertion there is “no proof” the swastika-tattooed man suspected of killing eight people at an Allen, Texas, mall earlier this month was a white supremacist.
“I think it was incorrectly ascribed to be a white supremacist action,” Musk told CNBC’s David Faber. “I’m saying that I thought ascribing it to white supremacy was bullshit.”
The suspect, Mauricio Garcia, was shot dead by police during the attack in which he reportedly wore a patch with the text “RWDS” ― short for “Right Wing Death Squad.”
“We do know that he had neo-Nazi ideation. He had patches. He had tattoos. Even his signature verified that,” said Hank Sibley, North Texas regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety.
Garcia also allegedly posted neo-Nazi content online. [truncated]
Source:
Elon Musk Cooks Up Unbelievable Claim About Swastika-Tattooed Texas Mall Shooter
Twitter’s billionaire owner also defended his attacks on investor and Jewish Holocaust survivor George Soros, calling himself a “pro-Semite, if anything.”www.huffpost.com
WHAT is Elon's major malfunction here? WHAT if the value of wading into the motivations of a mass murderer?!? How can someone so brilliant be so simultaneously stupid and inept?
In closing, Elon needlessly HARMS THE MISSION with his stream-of-consciousness commentary, much of which is just plain factually incorrect and juvenile. He continues to shoot himself (and us) in the foot.
TESLA is a PUBLIC company, not his personal play thing.
If he doesn't like it, too bad--perhaps he can take TSLA private and just piss off his private shareholders, but that ship has long since sailed . . . .
Until then, someone on the Board of Directors needs to tell Elon to control his Twitter fingers and his mouth. Period.
p.s. We're 100% "in" with THE MISSION. We've been TSLA, and Tesla, owners since 2013, but it's enough. At any other company, with any other BoD, Elon would have been fired long ago.
Elon needs to stop with the stupid public commentary on whatever strikes his fancy at all hours of the day and night. Now.
So my opinion on the meeting and interview last night was that both were very good, BUT I was hoping for at least a couple juicy new tidbits of information. It was all mostly just reviewing things we already knew.
I would have loved something like:
- Some pics and/or info on the Highland M3.
- Some new details on the CT, we still don't have official pics of the interior or frunk.
- A timeline on when they plan to break ground in Mexico.
- A better update on 4680 production progress.
The best takeaways IMHO were the Optimus footage and Elon's reveal to dabble in some advertising, which ironically only occurred because Meet Kevin got the chance to ask about it directly and Elon liked the way he phrased the question. If Kevin hadn't been there we wouldn't have gotten even that.
I was too optimistic.
I would have loved something like:
- Some pics and/or info on the Highland M3.
- Some new details on the CT, we still don't have official pics of the interior or frunk.
- A timeline on when they plan to break ground in Mexico.
- A better update on 4680 production progress.
The best takeaways IMHO were the Optimus footage and Elon's reveal to dabble in some advertising, which ironically only occurred because Meet Kevin got the chance to ask about it directly and Elon liked the way he phrased the question. If Kevin hadn't been there we wouldn't have gotten even that.
I was too optimistic.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Meanwhile, whatever happened or was said yesterday, the stock did not drop as usual and just broke through Max Pain (and then some). More interviews please.
Networks are warming up to Elon (or visa versa). CNBC was rather nice I thought compared to the last interview (foreign one I think) where the interviewer left in frustration with his tongue tied. The bully is making friends now after getting a few punches in the nose and realizing Tesla is the winner - better get on board at some point.
Networks are warming up to Elon (or visa versa). CNBC was rather nice I thought compared to the last interview (foreign one I think) where the interviewer left in frustration with his tongue tied. The bully is making friends now after getting a few punches in the nose and realizing Tesla is the winner - better get on board at some point.
Krugerrand
Meow
Nobody said otherwise. The point is if you ignore what the CEO says and believes knowing full well it doesn’t align with you personally and still invest in him and his company than you’ve no right to complain or be upset when he says/does that exact thing that doesn’t align with you. I don’t understand why people don’t get that. You’re not going to change him and he’s going to constantly been giving you and your investment angst - move on.
It’s akin to loving someone and marrying them when they have very different core values than you on family/raising children, religion, politics, money, or fidelity and thinking that person will change to suit you and align. Doesn’t happen. Instead there are constant fights and unhappiness, eventually divorce. Then the same words come out of their mouths; we love each other but it’s not enough, we’re too different at our core, etc…
So be a fan of the company, but don’t buy TSLA stock when the person in charge doesn’t possess the core values you need them to have for you to be happy in life. Stop fighting against what is obvious and inevitable.
Off topic subforum? Really?
This with TSLA down ~75% a few months ago, AND after quoting a massively important, hour-long interview with CNBC's David Faber on the occasion of Tesla's Annual Shareholder meeting . . . .
Some of us here lost seven- and eight-figures in TSLA over the past year, and this IS the investor's forum, right? For some of us, that's real money. It was an avoidable loss, mostly due to self-induced errors by our CEO . . . ..
Please take a moment to review another's post early this morning:
It’s noticeable the difference in how many quality TMC posters that were here for last years annual meeting who are no longer here for this years meeting. The exodus was gradual, but now striking.
Thank you.
Thank you for the full quotes. Therein lies the problem.
TESLA IS NOT A 100% PRIVATELY-OWNED COMPANY. On the contrary, it is a PUBLIC COMPANY. WE own it.
Elon has a fiduciary responsibility to US and what he says and does matters to the company that WE own.
His public statements have consequences and there is a large (and growing!) subset of the TAM that will NOT buy any Tesla product because of Elon's unhinged comments. We know of at least one couple that have sold their Model Y Performance and will not buy another Tesla (or solar, or HVAC, etc.) as a result.
Elon's comments are many, but some of the most recent/damaging come to mind:
1. House Speaker Pelosi's husband attacked by a random whack job, yet Elon writes/alludes that " . . . there's more to the story." [paraphrased]
Elon turns out to be 100% incorrect.
2. Tech millionaire knifed to death by someone he knew in San Francisco.
Elon posts comments/assumptions that turn out to be 100% incorrect.
3. Elon Musk tweets, then deletes, meme comparing Trudeau to Hitler
4. Too many to count re: COVID being a minor concern . . . .
And more fallout from just last night's interview:
Twitter owner Elon Musk on Tuesday doubled down on his assertion there is “no proof” the swastika-tattooed man suspected of killing eight people at an Allen, Texas, mall earlier this month was a white supremacist.
“I think it was incorrectly ascribed to be a white supremacist action,” Musk told CNBC’s David Faber. “I’m saying that I thought ascribing it to white supremacy was bullshit.”
The suspect, Mauricio Garcia, was shot dead by police during the attack in which he reportedly wore a patch with the text “RWDS” ― short for “Right Wing Death Squad.”
“We do know that he had neo-Nazi ideation. He had patches. He had tattoos. Even his signature verified that,” said Hank Sibley, North Texas regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety.
Garcia also allegedly posted neo-Nazi content online. [truncated]
Source:
Elon Musk Cooks Up Unbelievable Claim About Swastika-Tattooed Texas Mall Shooter
Twitter’s billionaire owner also defended his attacks on investor and Jewish Holocaust survivor George Soros, calling himself a “pro-Semite, if anything.”
WHAT is Elon's major malfunction here? WHAT if the value of wading into the motivations of a mass murderer?!? How can someone so brilliant be so simultaneously stupid and inept?
In closing, Elon needlessly HARMS THE MISSION with his stream-of-consciousness commentary, much of which is just plain factually incorrect and juvenile. He continues to shoot himself (and us) in the foot.
TESLA is a PUBLIC company, not his personal play thing.
If he doesn't like it, too bad--perhaps he can take TSLA private and just piss off his private shareholders, but that ship has long since sailed . . . .
Until then, someone on the Board of Directors needs to tell Elon to control his Twitter fingers and his mouth. Period.
p.s. We're 100% "in" with THE MISSION. We've been TSLA, and Tesla, owners since 2013, but it's enough. At any other company, with any other BoD, Elon would have been fired long ago.
Elon needs to stop with the stupid public commentary on whatever strikes his fancy at all hours of the day and night. Now.
I don't know anyone that was forced and is now forced by force or a weapon to buy/hold the shares. The markets are open most of the year. Not happy - sell the shares and don't support the company. Not everyone gets it apparently.
Elon is not going to kiss any behinds and make everyone happy.
"Elon needs to stop with the stupid public commentary on whatever strikes his fancy at all hours of the day and night. Now."
"Until then, someone on the Board of Directors needs to tell Elon to control his Twitter fingers and his mouth. Period."
Bad Boy! Bad Boy! What ya' gonna do?
Don't hold your breath or expect that (the free-floating consciousness) to cease. In fact, as Musk continues to experience increasing success, you will hear a lot more of it.
As a self-identified bipolar savant with Asperger's, Musk's default mode is to question others' reality and be oppositional while purporting his own ideas. A double-edged sword of sorts, inherent with extremely bright people, who shine and succeed most of the time, but have trouble relating to others and the general populous. They don't fit in and social norms are foreign to them.
Why do you think Musk works the voluminous hours he does? It's the only place he can derive pure pleasure. Houses, wealth and, believe it or not, "your stock portfolio", don't mean much of anything to him. His self-worth comes from accomplishment, uniqueness, pushing himself and those around him harder, and from winning battles, not dissimilar to "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and....". At times he enjoys being a bully, and at other times, he withdraws and is profoundly sad in his aloneness and uniqueness. Stirring up the public sentiment with bizarre thinking and comments is stimulating for him. And, as you know, even the SEC can't harness him.
The more power he accumulates, the more controversial and intrusive he will become and the more fights he will pick, ie Pedo comments, etc, etc. "Someone needs to tell him" Oh NO! Anyone attempting to put a bridle on Elon's elite consciousness will soon find themselves working elsewhere, having missed or not learned the lesson on the Care and Feeding of Narcissists.
Sorry. With Musk, you get the whine, with the shine!
It's an investment strategy and the reason I currently am down to one share of TSLA stock (for the moment).
"Until then, someone on the Board of Directors needs to tell Elon to control his Twitter fingers and his mouth. Period."
Bad Boy! Bad Boy! What ya' gonna do?
Don't hold your breath or expect that (the free-floating consciousness) to cease. In fact, as Musk continues to experience increasing success, you will hear a lot more of it.
As a self-identified bipolar savant with Asperger's, Musk's default mode is to question others' reality and be oppositional while purporting his own ideas. A double-edged sword of sorts, inherent with extremely bright people, who shine and succeed most of the time, but have trouble relating to others and the general populous. They don't fit in and social norms are foreign to them.
Why do you think Musk works the voluminous hours he does? It's the only place he can derive pure pleasure. Houses, wealth and, believe it or not, "your stock portfolio", don't mean much of anything to him. His self-worth comes from accomplishment, uniqueness, pushing himself and those around him harder, and from winning battles, not dissimilar to "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and....". At times he enjoys being a bully, and at other times, he withdraws and is profoundly sad in his aloneness and uniqueness. Stirring up the public sentiment with bizarre thinking and comments is stimulating for him. And, as you know, even the SEC can't harness him.
The more power he accumulates, the more controversial and intrusive he will become and the more fights he will pick, ie Pedo comments, etc, etc. "Someone needs to tell him" Oh NO! Anyone attempting to put a bridle on Elon's elite consciousness will soon find themselves working elsewhere, having missed or not learned the lesson on the Care and Feeding of Narcissists.
Sorry. With Musk, you get the whine, with the shine!
It's an investment strategy and the reason I currently am down to one share of TSLA stock (for the moment).
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