Exactly. The Cybertruck spec and comparative performance is very pertinent to an investment thread. If someone wants to talk just about stock price go start a new thread. This is an investment thread.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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Hey, how's the Lithium refinery project in Corpus Cristi going?
Satellite images from the week of the ground-breaking compared to yesterday's show indications of some groundwork and maybe early-stage construction taking place at the site.
Tesla currently has 28 job postings for the Robstown facility, with the majority of openings for manufacturing roles.
I'd say they're making pretty good progress.
Satellite images from the week of the ground-breaking compared to yesterday's show indications of some groundwork and maybe early-stage construction taking place at the site.
Tesla currently has 28 job postings for the Robstown facility, with the majority of openings for manufacturing roles.
I'd say they're making pretty good progress.
larmor
Active Member
Range of Cybertruck is significant to Tesla, if there were a truck with 500 mile range at the proposed price of 69k, that would change the pricing and feature set of all the other cars in the lineup. For Texas residents, 500 mile range is actually needed, since many sites are far off, distances are huge, and one has to haul stuff those distances, presumably with an impact on range.
Population density in other states makes the used range not as important, but definitely needed in Texas.
Rashomon
Member
The two places where really large batteries are needed are the American West, with lots of lonely long range trips (I'm thinking of a memorable ride from Ely, Nevada to Newport Beach, CA, where I didn't see but 3 or 4 other vehicles in the first 4 hours) and Germany. The autobahn allows speeds where aero losses are 90 percent or more, and I'm sure Porsche and Mercedes will be eager to have EVs with 500-miles EPA range -- because you might achieve 200 miles at autobahn speeds, if you're not really hurrying. For the Cybertruck, towing is going to be the killer application for a really big battery, as it often cuts range by more than 50 percent.
Thanks for adding the German oddity of unrestricted speed, my model y long range doesn't get 100 miles on spirited driving on the autobahn
MountainRatMat
Member
Good point, I do think it does. Not sure speculation about specs has much to do with TSLA though. If FSD releases tomorrow then the stock will skyrocket but we all know that isn't happening. It is at least 2 weeks before level 4 FSD is released.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Here are some selected Elon Musk Tweets on Cybertruck (w. Dates):
- 2021-11-29 "@ZainS180 @VikingRocket @WholeMarsBlog Cybertruck will reach far into a post-apocalyptic future & bring that technology to now" / Twitter
- 2021-12-03 "@WholeMarsBlog Initial production will be 4 motor variant, with independent, ultra fast response torque control of each wheel" / Twitter
- 2021-12-03 "@marv63804322 @WholeMarsBlog Will have both front & rear wheel steer, so not just like a tank – it can drive diagonally like a crab" / Twitter
- 2022-03-02 "@teslaownersSV @WholeMarsBlog Our primary challenge is affordability. Creating an expensive truck is relatively easy. If it is extremely hard to do so for Tesla, despite our much greater economies of scale & better technology, then it is damn near impossible for others." / Twitter
- 2022-09-29 "Cybertruck will be waterproof enough to serve briefly as a boat, so it can cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren’t too choppy" / Twitter
So then, how likely is a 'Quad-motor' Cybertruck with 350 miles range? Personally, I'd favor this for initial production, especially if the motors are of the new 'rare-earth-free' type. Is this the post-apocalytic technology?
Cheers!
P.S. Is it too much to ask for an auxillary battery pack for extended range? Make it so you can leave at home connected to your Powerwall most of the year, but put it in your CT for the 2 weeks a year when you plan on 500 mile towing days. I estimate it would take approx +75 KWh to increase range from 350 to 500 miles, while subtracting about 750 lbs from the truck's payload (but not from it's towing capacity).
This could also be one way to remain eligible for the IRA credit, since the Ext'd Rge Bty Pack would be an "accessory" you order after your CT purchase, just like the Quad...
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I can see that. And agreed. All the specs are pertinent to the investment thread for competitive reasons.
Rashomon
Member
It's possible to calculate approximately how fast your were going. Were you averaging about 170-180 km/h? Just imagine how fast a Plaid range drops at 250 km/h . . .
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
The Bugatti Chiron Super Sport gulps ~3 gallons per minute of dino juice at top speed.
ByeByeJohnny
Active Member
Do we know what the cost for a supercharger is? Right now there are permits for around 50 new ones just in the LA area. I looked it up. I think just half of that would fill up almost all the significant holes in the map in the US. Put three each in Idaho, Montana, the Dakota, Nevada, Texas panhandle and New Mexico. That's not even half what is already in the permit stage in LA. Sure, they would get much less usage so more "expensive" for Tesla in the short run but it would almost instantly take out the argument that you can't go anywhere with an EV.
Yes, we all know there are other places to charge but this is about perception.
A little googling seems to put the cost for a stall anywhere from $40k-$200k. Presumably they could be on the more expensive side if they are in rural areas, although the land should be cheaper. Even so that would be something like $1.5 million at most per eight stall supercharger and all those places I suggest above could be built for something like $25 million. That's peanuts and Tesla will build them anyway sometimes in the next five years.
So just build those now. Doesn't matter if they get low usage.
People buying EVs are looking at maps where they can charge before buying. Even if they are never going there. Just make the holes on the maps smaller.
As a sidebar to all Americans thinking Europe is very small. We don't all live in Luxembourg. You can drive a longer distance both east to west and north to south in Europe than the longest straight drive you can drive any direction in the continental US. Really. Also, just Sweden and Norway together is significantly larger than Texas with only about half the population.
Sounds great, but I can't imagine the complicate load/unload method for that 750lbs auxiliary battery pack. Maybe if you made it into ten 75lb modules, but I think that would add too much extra volume to the solution, not to mention all of the extra connections.
And then of course there is the cooling portion... The quick-connects would likely become a problem. (I think the old Model S packs had a lot of problems with the cooling hose connections, I don't know if they came up with a more durable design, or if they just change them every time they fail.
You have summed up my thoughts nicely.
But my other thoughts are:-
- How big a battery could it have?
- How big a battery does it need?
For the 500 mile version only, perhaps some additional "double layer battery extensions" could be carried as freight.
There is a trade off where a large battery means more weight, but the CT is designed to haul / tow a fair amount of weight.
When it is towing or hauling a large weight, the percentage of the range lost due to the additional battery weight is smaller than for a conventional vehicle.
The other consideration is energy density, get the 4680 cell energy density high enough and even the 500 mile CT can have a single layer structural pack. (Assuming the double layer speculation is accurate,)
Apart from 4680 production volumes, a 500 mile CT might need a Gen3 or Gen4 4680 cell, and that might not be available until 2025 or 2026.
We don't really know, my main point is that there are lots of variables.,
Cost is the other consideration, but those that want 500 mile range and good range while towing might be prepared to pay for it, especially when the CT is the vehicle that can deliver it in the most efficient package, with the fastest charging.
lafrisbee
Active Member
I tried to not post I really really did.
But dang it people? Some of you have to own a bigass truck like I do. Dodge with the 5.7 liter hemi. It used to be FAST (before teslas anyway).
At 80 (which is where normal people travel when they are going somewhere) that damn thing gets almost 14ish miles a gallon with a 24ish gallon tank, you do the math (don't forget to square the ish). The worst thing I hauled was a uhaul trailer. 20ft-ish. At 80mph I got 8ish gph. So 40% less.
This loss in mileage ain't worth this much talk. I don't think 1% of the entire truck buyers out there haul anything for 200 miles. If you do then keep your 350 dually diesel by god. Otherwise like me, it ain't gonna matter.
But dang it people? Some of you have to own a bigass truck like I do. Dodge with the 5.7 liter hemi. It used to be FAST (before teslas anyway).
At 80 (which is where normal people travel when they are going somewhere) that damn thing gets almost 14ish miles a gallon with a 24ish gallon tank, you do the math (don't forget to square the ish). The worst thing I hauled was a uhaul trailer. 20ft-ish. At 80mph I got 8ish gph. So 40% less.
This loss in mileage ain't worth this much talk. I don't think 1% of the entire truck buyers out there haul anything for 200 miles. If you do then keep your 350 dually diesel by god. Otherwise like me, it ain't gonna matter.
lafrisbee
Active Member
Oh and I am happy for all you sumbitches that are climbing the mountain of cash.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
All true, I'm thinking more like a "Powerpack" for your CT truck bed: Mostly independant systems for cooling, charging, modular wall-mount racking also doubles as truck bed mount. Will need a lift rig, but the CT does have an air compressor so...
Obviously, availabily would be down the road. Also a fantastic 1 month "lease" option for what $1K-ish? (just imagine adding this to your Cybertruck for holidays).
Even just announcing an Ext'd Range Bty Pack as a "Coming Product" instantly solves the buyer's remorse issues / Osborning for the "I'm waiting for 500 miles range" types, and increases TAM.
Cheers!
Phobi
Member
For the burn post-Wednesday possibly?
In all seriousness though, still loading up and more than content with adding while under $300.
Flame on.
And speaking of products, just received my bottle of Burnt Hair this afternoon! Excellent packaging and it literally smells like burnt hair! I definitely know what it smells like, worse after washing it.
But, now what? Has this all been planned out for a killer record setting 2nd quarter that will financially "burn shorts" and TBC not sending it until it was assured? Are we supposed to put it on Wednesday and Thursday? Is there another cologne coming that will act as a catalyst to something that smells great?
Oh well, it will look great on my Tesla shrine!
But, now what? Has this all been planned out for a killer record setting 2nd quarter that will financially "burn shorts" and TBC not sending it until it was assured? Are we supposed to put it on Wednesday and Thursday? Is there another cologne coming that will act as a catalyst to something that smells great?
Oh well, it will look great on my Tesla shrine!
Jim Farley, Ford CEO, basically gave the same reason for the F150 price cuts as Tesla did. Efficiencies have allowed them to reduce prices and keep margins in the OK range. If we’re being honest, we should give Ford the same benefit of the doubt as we have Tesla and take him at his word.
I thought the F150 price cuts were well timed personally.
GhostSkater
Member
That won't happen in many years, with the available space, you would need double the energy density of what we have today
Energy density alone hasn't improved that much over the past years, what we got is more power dense cells while keeping the energy density constant
The Panasonic NCR18650-B was one of the first high energy cells to hit the market with above 3000 mAh and has a gravimetric energy density of 243 Wh/kg, it was launched on 2009 and a slightly modified version was used on the Model S in the beginning
Today 2170 cells Tesla use are at 269 Wh/kg, so in 14 years we got a 10.6% increase in energy density. With everything Tesla showed on battery day, 4680s might get to 350 Wh/kg, which is a 44% over the original Model S from 2012
Yes, I'm ignoring the ultra niche and ultra expensive cells that are at supposedly 500 Wh/kg since they are irrelevant for now Tesla products wise
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