And even that is false. I pay my electric bill with a card, and my Tesla account hits my card, as does all the other charging networks.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
We have our Tesla account hooked up with M1 Finance where we get 10% back for all Tesla charges.And even that is false. I pay my electric bill with a card, and my Tesla account hits my card, as does all the other charging networks.
GhostSkater
Member
Here's the DMV ruling:
No real data, but at least it gives the reasons
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
You mean complimentary wrap? Only issue is that isnt permanent.WRAP it up.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
This is not good, I see Cruise and Waymo as policy pathfinders for all robotaxi networks including Tesla. This is setting a bad precedence.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Based on inflation, announced pricing for Tri-Motor goes from $69,990 in 2019 to $91,476.93 in 2023. That's cheap compared to a Ford F-150 Raptor with a Coyote and similar specs... oh, wait.
What Tesla Cybertruck pricing could look like based on inflation
Tesla announced Cybertruck pricing in November 2019. But a lot has changed since then, including the average transaction of a pickup.
www.teslarati.com
Plus the grey-market for the launch edition offer a huge markup. We already know the 1st one sold at auction from The Peterson in L.A. for $400K
It's a bad precedence but an inevitable one I think, because true robotaxis are seemingly nowhere near becoming reality even geofenced into a hotbed of autonomy much less generalized across an entire country, across all seasons, across all edge cases, etc, and then expanded globally across different countries with different conventions, different quality of infrastructure, and everything else.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Yes, if you were buying the core consumer index. Things like milk, bread, energy, and cars have gone up more than the index.
$69,990 in 2019 → 2023 | Inflation Calculator
The 4.75% inflation rate means $69,990 in 2019 is equivalent to $84,261.76 today. This inflation calculator uses the official US consumer price index published by the Department of Labor.
www.in2013dollars.com
It has begun... VW to stop selling ICE vehicles in Norway at the end of 2023:
driveteslacanada.ca
Volkswagen to end ICE sales in Norway this year
Volkswagen is one of the most popular automobile brands in Norway. However, Norwegians who want to continue patronizing the German automaker will have to switch to an electric vehicle (EV) as it will cease selling internal combustion […]
driveteslacanada.ca
Based on that, it sounds like Cruise lied to the DMV.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
I guess we don't know where DMV really sits without knowing what they're demanding from Cruise to get reinstated
The DMV has provided Cruise with the steps needed to apply to reinstate its suspended permits, which the DMV will not approve until the company has fulfilled the requirements to the department’s satisfaction.
Gigapress
Trying to be less wrong
Tesla's automotive fundamentals remain excellent. Do not be distracted by the visible numbers for Q3.
Most importantly, Tesla still really hasn't achieved economies of scale yet. Total gross margin was still 18% but net margin was only 8%, due to opex eating up 40% of the gross profit. Plus, much of that opex was going towards development of Optimus, Dojo, and new businesses like virtual power plants. At 10M+ vehicles per year kind of scale, there should be much more operating leverage. And they're still shipping cars very long distances, on average, which will be greatly mitigated in the future with more factories each serving smaller regions.
There also is consistent variability from foreign exchange because Tesla does not hedge for this. In Q3, it was a $400 million headwind. However, the long-term average effect of forex fluctuations is likely to be roughly 0, so this should be factored out when analyzing a single quarter.
Tesla's global average automotive unit economics are depressed, have been depressed, and will continue to be depressed by the explosive production growth curve, for several reasons. This implies that whenever growth slows down and the automotive business is no longer in startup mode, the latent, underlying economics will show through.
1) For as long as Tesla is expanding quickly, new production lines will constitute a large portion of total production. These factories still haven't reached maturity yet. This was noted on the front page of the Q3 deck: "...production cost at our new factories remained higher than our established factories...". In Q3 this effect was especially pronounced due to Shanghai, the most profitable and efficient plant, being shut down, which removed it from the global production mix, and then beginning low-rate initial production of M3 Highland, which effectively turned it too into a partially new factory with temporarily higher costs per unit.
2) The fleet is young. As Elon has noted on an earnings call a few years ago, historically most OEMs have made most of their profit not on initial sale, but instead on out-of-warranty replacement parts and financing. Tesla, being new and rapidly growing, does not get this benefit (yet). For the average Tesla car, the total lifetime profit for Services & Other has mostly not occurred yet, but savvy investors should consider the net present value of these expected future cash flows instead of fixating on the economics of the initial sales and early years of vehicle life, which is all that is currently showing in the financial reports. Almost all Tesla vehicles in existence are still under warranty, and the current fleet still has lots of $$ for Supercharging, premium connectivity, insurance and FSD still waiting to accrue over time.
3) Tesla's vehicle ASP is continually depressed by competition. Not so much because the competitors are competently competing, but more so because they are willing to sell their EVs for big losses. Tesla's aggressive growth is, at times, outpacing the growth of demand for Tesla cars, and that demand exists in a market where the competitors are essentially compensating for their inadequacy by giving up and hoping their costs will massively improve in the future. The huge losses are subsidized either by investment capital (e.g. Rivian) or ICE profits (legacy OEMs). Obviously, this is a transient market situation which is unsustainable in the long run, and therefore it is not representative of where things are headed in the 2030s and beyond. The competition still has not shown anywhere close to the degree of cost control (and the engineering behind it) that Tesla has shown, and the gap is likely to widen with mature 4680 production and with the Gen 3 platform, based on what was disclosed at Investor Day.
None of this has changed recently. The only major recent change was substantially cutting car prices, which, according to the company, is basically just adjusting for interest increases to keep monthly loan/lease payments approximately equal to where they had been previously. Automotive is a cyclical business that currently is in a recession. So what?
Most importantly, Tesla still really hasn't achieved economies of scale yet. Total gross margin was still 18% but net margin was only 8%, due to opex eating up 40% of the gross profit. Plus, much of that opex was going towards development of Optimus, Dojo, and new businesses like virtual power plants. At 10M+ vehicles per year kind of scale, there should be much more operating leverage. And they're still shipping cars very long distances, on average, which will be greatly mitigated in the future with more factories each serving smaller regions.
There also is consistent variability from foreign exchange because Tesla does not hedge for this. In Q3, it was a $400 million headwind. However, the long-term average effect of forex fluctuations is likely to be roughly 0, so this should be factored out when analyzing a single quarter.
Tesla's global average automotive unit economics are depressed, have been depressed, and will continue to be depressed by the explosive production growth curve, for several reasons. This implies that whenever growth slows down and the automotive business is no longer in startup mode, the latent, underlying economics will show through.
1) For as long as Tesla is expanding quickly, new production lines will constitute a large portion of total production. These factories still haven't reached maturity yet. This was noted on the front page of the Q3 deck: "...production cost at our new factories remained higher than our established factories...". In Q3 this effect was especially pronounced due to Shanghai, the most profitable and efficient plant, being shut down, which removed it from the global production mix, and then beginning low-rate initial production of M3 Highland, which effectively turned it too into a partially new factory with temporarily higher costs per unit.
2) The fleet is young. As Elon has noted on an earnings call a few years ago, historically most OEMs have made most of their profit not on initial sale, but instead on out-of-warranty replacement parts and financing. Tesla, being new and rapidly growing, does not get this benefit (yet). For the average Tesla car, the total lifetime profit for Services & Other has mostly not occurred yet, but savvy investors should consider the net present value of these expected future cash flows instead of fixating on the economics of the initial sales and early years of vehicle life, which is all that is currently showing in the financial reports. Almost all Tesla vehicles in existence are still under warranty, and the current fleet still has lots of $$ for Supercharging, premium connectivity, insurance and FSD still waiting to accrue over time.
3) Tesla's vehicle ASP is continually depressed by competition. Not so much because the competitors are competently competing, but more so because they are willing to sell their EVs for big losses. Tesla's aggressive growth is, at times, outpacing the growth of demand for Tesla cars, and that demand exists in a market where the competitors are essentially compensating for their inadequacy by giving up and hoping their costs will massively improve in the future. The huge losses are subsidized either by investment capital (e.g. Rivian) or ICE profits (legacy OEMs). Obviously, this is a transient market situation which is unsustainable in the long run, and therefore it is not representative of where things are headed in the 2030s and beyond. The competition still has not shown anywhere close to the degree of cost control (and the engineering behind it) that Tesla has shown, and the gap is likely to widen with mature 4680 production and with the Gen 3 platform, based on what was disclosed at Investor Day.
None of this has changed recently. The only major recent change was substantially cutting car prices, which, according to the company, is basically just adjusting for interest increases to keep monthly loan/lease payments approximately equal to where they had been previously. Automotive is a cyclical business that currently is in a recession. So what?
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KBF
Model X owner (formerly Cdn Signature Model S)
There was a recent article that explained how Tesla is using far less water than they have permits for in Berlin, and actually decreased usage as they increased production,so this makes sense. Tesla seems to be doing a very good job in conserving water.
Tesla should not be even in the same bucket as those. Clumping Tesla FSD with them is really bad for Tesla. Theoretically, all want to achieve the same goal which is FSD, but the way Waymo does it has been questionable to be polite. I am shocked they got any kind of license if the first place.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
That one is a pretty simple fix: put a transponder on each SF fire truck. Unless they already have them (then grant access to the G/D data, SF). In my city, even the Buses have GPS trackers so you can see on ur cell ph when the next one arrives.
Cruise already won't turn left if it can make 3 rights instead, won't go on the hiway, etc. Hard to imagine they couldn't easily add another "won't" for fire trucks.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
sounds like Cruise lied to DMV, in that case this seems a reasonable punishment, and hopefully shouldn't impact the rest of the self-driving industry
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