Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Buckminster]

Finally Toyota gets it!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718183655367942456

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

So, it sounds like the union is speaking for themselves and not for the majority of the Tesla employees. Which is what I expected. So it seems like Tesla is doing the correct thing by telling them they aren't interested in a collective agreement.

@SwedishAdvocate in these collective agreements does money end up flowing from the employer, or the employees, to the union? Is this really just a money grab? (If not, what changes is the union asking for? More money? More benefits? Better tools? More training? More PTO? Fewer hours? More OT pay?)

I'm not some kind of expert on this. The union in question has this info in English:

Background information on IF Metall’s conflict at Tesla

The main reason for IF Metall to take industrial action at Tesla is to ensure that our members have decent and safe working conditions. Over a long period of time, we have attempted to discuss with Tesla the signing of a collective agreement, yet without success. Now we see no solution other...

www.ifmetall.se

Strike – the right to protect safe conditions

The right to strike is included in the Swedish constitution. It is therefore a right in Sweden to go on strike.

www.ifmetall.se

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

...] If it drags long enough, Tesla can find 3rd party shops that Tesla would supply the necessary supplies and tools for them to carry out the service needed instead of giving way. At higher cost than operating its own SC, sure. [...

As I've understood things it's more complicated than that. I'm not so sure there are shops that don't have Collective agreements with the union that Tesla can use. Tesla already contracts 3rd party shops today, and as I've understood it, Tesla has been given notice that union members at these 3rd party shops as a solidarity action will cease to do work paid for by Tesla as the the first escalation of this conflict.

Or it can even be that the owners of these shops have all signed Collective agreements. And in a situation like this one they are obliged to not carry out work for a company that has entered into a conflict with the union.

EDIT: Made a clarification to the first version of this text.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

One does not negotiate with terrorists.

That escalated quickly...

In the Swedish version of Democracy more people than those that make up various Corporate HQ's get to have a say... And as I've understood things, large parts of Europe incl. Germany and France are the same...

 

[Hytra]

From my understanding of my following of Tesla for the past months, they are already installing the lines for the next generation vehicle at Giga Texas, is this correct (mostly known from the Joe Tegtmeyer videos)?
That would be the first time they are doing that without showing the vehicle first.
If that is the case, I guess it should arrive sooner than most expect.
In the current state of the building in Texas, is there enough space to have significant production of this vehicle, or would it be a small pilot line?

 

[mongo]

From my understanding of my following of Tesla for the past months, they are already installing the lines for the next generation vehicle at Giga Texas, is this correct (mostly known from the Joe Tegtmeyer videos)?
That would be the first time they are doing that without showing the vehicle first.
If that is the case, I guess it should arrive sooner than most expect.
In the current state of the building in Texas, is there enough space to have significant production of this vehicle, or would it be a small pilot line?

Ya, they moved next gen first line development to Austin. That may be what triggered the building addition modifications. It will be a full line that will then be duplicated (with enhancements) on Mexico.
The new end of line building across the highway will free up more internal space for the line also.

 

[2daMoon]

I'm not some kind of expert on this. The union in question has this info in English:

Background information on IF Metall’s conflict at Tesla

The main reason for IF Metall to take industrial action at Tesla is to ensure that our members have decent and safe working conditions. Over a long period of time, we have attempted to discuss with Tesla the signing of a collective agreement, yet without success. Now we see no solution other...

www.ifmetall.se

Strike – the right to protect safe conditions

The right to strike is included in the Swedish constitution. It is therefore a right in Sweden to go on strike.

www.ifmetall.se

Thank you for sharing those links.

After reading them, nothing specific in the way of a complaint with Tesla is being made, just rhetoric implying that the agreement will ensure safe working conditions, and that everyone else in Sweden does it so Tesla should too.

Without a more specific complaint this appears to be a power play targeting Tesla. The union will exert pressure to obtain power over the company and the employees without having any particular reason for doing so other than saying how they have forced other companies to tow the line and will force Tesla to do the same.

They are offering a solution for a problem which does not exist. The only benefactor from this seems to be the union itself.

At least in 'merica the unions will attempt a smear campaign, make up complaints, get them in the news, and lie if they have to in order to sway popular opinion. This union's attempt appears to be the work of rookies by comparison.

 

[Usain]

So, as we are at the weekend, any suggestions on what Tesla should do (IF ANYTHING) to address what I'll call both education about EVs and actual animosity (or at least opposition) toward EVs?
My first EV was a Chevy Volt (2012-2015). After that I moved to a Model S. For most of that time, my friends and co-workers were either ambivalent or mildly curious. A few became enthusiastic with test drives or at least impressed! They generally had all the usual questions (i.e. how far does it go on a charge, how do your charge, who fixes it, how long does the battery last, etc.).

Flash forward to today and most folks I run into still have the same basic questions (poke your heads outside the EV bubble), BUT now I also get the "I'll never own one of those cars!" attitude as folks view it as a "government thing" being jammed down their throats (and they aren't interested "regardless of price"...or so they say). I equate it to the "darn foreign cars" mindset of U.S. buyers decades ago.
Sure, the best thing Tesla can do is "keep making a compelling product" (indeed they HAVE to do this), but in an age of instant communication and rampant misinformation, should they do more? Heck, is there anything that can be done? The "A" word comes to mind of course, but what else? Even if Tesla can't "convert" those vehemently opposed...what about at least targeting the "ambivalent"?
Of course, MAYBE the Cybertruck will do this...much like the Model 3 and Y have in their respective segments. What I don't think is the answer is simply cutting prices into oblivion...remember, car buying is about "emotion" - it has been for decades. The Model 3 really triggered the "new car fever"...will anything else?

 

[2daMoon]

Ya, they moved next gen first line development to Austin. That may be what triggered the building addition modifications. It will be a full line that will then be duplicated (with enhancements) on Mexico.
The new end of line building across the highway will free up more internal space for the line also.

As I recall, there was talk of plans having been filed with the city for the expansion to the South end of Giga Texas way back when the main building was still being constructed.

 

[2daMoon]

It gets really tedious reading the opinions (regarding the Swedish strike) of people who know nothing of Sweden, Swedish people, or the work environment in Sweden. When you start out a post with "I don't know anything about ..." then it's best to just not post, as your opinion is utterly worthless.

It's remarkably different (and informative) to have posts from people who know something of the environment and situation. Thank you to them.

Well good. So, you must have some facts to present which justify the Swedish union's position? That's great.

Please, do share them.

Oh, you don't have anything to share?

You just like climbing upon some sort of moral soapbox and looking down upon those asking for actual evidence to justify the need for meeting this union's demands?

Well, sorry to have troubled you with my attempt to apply logic and reason in order to better understand the situation, rather than lashing out emotionally from an equally uninformed perspective.

Do carry on then with the unsupported moral outrage toward anyone confronting a bully-tactic-wielding force operating under the guise of being "good for the people."

Hint: Anything that is truly good for the people is unlikely to require force

 

[mongo]

As I recall, there was talk of plans having been filed with the city for the expansion to the South end of Giga Texas way back when the main building was still being constructed.

Great point! Those permits were filed spring of last year, and the next gen line location shift was spring this year. Reviewing, even the stamping bump out was called out then.

GA2 & GA3 are possibly Cybertruck and Next Gen.

 

[FireMedic]

Wonder how much different this is from the original MSM, maybe more of a matte finish.

I read somewhere that the ultra red is just an extra coat of the previous (current 3/Y) red. I couldn’t find the link for that.

I would expect that the stealth grey is just an extra coat of the previous grey.

I love the added depth of the new red (almost enough to trade my lifetime free charging for a new ultra red X). I have not yet seen stealth grey in person yet.

 

[Artful Dodger]

As I recall, there was talk of plans having been filed with the city for the expansion to the South end of Giga Texas way back when the main building was still being constructed.

Yeah, it's an Office Building. And the Gen 3 at Giga Texas rumor didn't come from Joe Tegtmeyer, it came from Walter Isaacson.

 

[2daMoon]

Yeah, it's an Office Building. And the Gen 3 at Giga Texas rumors didn't come from Joe Tegtmeyer, it came from Walter Isaacson.

Yeah, I remember the planned future extension initially being described as administrative space as well.

 

[unk45]

It gets really tedious reading the opinions (regarding the Swedish strike) of people who know nothing of Sweden, Swedish people, or the work environment in Sweden. When you start out a post with "I don't know anything about ..." then it's best to just not post, as your opinion is utterly worthless.

It's remarkably different (and informative) to have posts from people who know something of the environment and situation. Thank you to them.

This applies on many subjects. Many seem bent on having firm opinions about subjects they do not know. That is particularly egregious when people have a connection to a subject, but unrelated to the topic about which they choose to opine. A pet peeve for me is those who've done programming on something, but not on the aspect in question.

Tesla has in many cases had high success in improbable areas precisely because they try to understand exactly what they're doing before implementing, and adapt quickly when they're wrong. That requires very clear understanding of the issues and especially cause and effect, which allows fast iteration.

Opining on Swedish union issues when one knows nothing at all about the specifics is a classically incompetent thing do. The word in English for such things is 'prejudice'.

Luckily most of us can usually tell the difference. When one of us, me for instance, makes a mistake, we usually find out quickly from more qualified people. When that happens we all can learn.

I'm learning about Swedish social structure and societal norms. That is wonderful! There are other arenas that could benefit by more consistent societal norms. Yet another benefit of diversity in TMC. Thanks!

 

[Buckminster]

Bit of a niche topic. Doubt anyone has heard about it here but you never know.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718261312843645010

 

[mongo]

Yeah, I remember the planned future extension initially being described as administrative space as well.

Permit called it GA 2 and 3 expansion, but moving offices from the building proper would also allow expansion.
https://abc.austintexas.gov/public-...errsn=12968668&t_selected_propertyrsn=5940796

 

[unk45]

That escalated quickly...

In the Swedish version of Democracy more people than those that make up various Corporate HQ's get to have a say... And as I've understood things, large parts of Europe incl. Germany and France are the same...

I really wish it were possible to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of differing social norms and social structures. Alas, since at least Plato opinions generally shush opposition. Now, rational discourse would be invaluable. Such is in diminishing supply in much of the world.

Sadly for TSLA holders, part of those debates have caught polemic fire in topics that should not even be controversial at all. My own view is that such is probably the largest driving force for both FUD and Market Maker glee with volatility. It si well to understand that underlying dynamic when thinking about speculation in TSLA shares.

 

[unk45]

Bit of a niche topic. Doubt anyone has heard about it here but you never know.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718261312843645010

Is that confirmed?

 

[Krugerrand]

Of course I'm not an expert.
But we know Tesla dislike unions worldwide and has a sort of "no negotiating" policy.
(we also know that one year ago Elon bought a company that shall not be named and fired on the spot 80% of the workforce... In the end, I use personally and professionally that product, I have used it for a decade, and can state that is now technologically better and socially worse. We can debate that elsewhere).
I simply think that Tesla should do well by their workers: what is the outcome I don't know, that is what negotiations are for. I don't care about the unions, but I do care about Tesla workers. For example, I love stock options for all the Tesla workers, it's great and it's indeed the "right thing".

That is not a correct characterization. It’s not about Tesla disliking unions. It’s about unions interfering with that which you say you care about; doing the right thing for employees.

The right thing is to allow employees to own a part of the company at a market discount and as part of performance bonuses. At least in the US, that’s not possible with a union.

The right thing is to allow employees to choose to be in a union or not. In the US, the employees have said NO to a union more than once, yet the UAW persists with their slimy tactics. In Sweden, apparently the employees are also not interested in a union collective agreement as they ALL accepted a job at Tesla without a collective agreement ever being in place and not existing for a decade+. Additionally, an employee in Sweden already stated publicly he’s not in favor of a collective agreement. But the union threatens to prevent customers from getting cars fixed, and blockading ports so they can’t get their new cars. What even!? But still Tesla did right by the employees in Sweden by telling them business as usual for those not wanting to represent the union, and those that do are free to go blockade the ports.

There is zero evidence that Tesla isn’t doing right by employees and to suggest or imply otherwise by bringing up that other business, where others have a differing opinion than yours, is disingenuous.