Can´t stress the asymmetrical enough - a worker leaving loses all of his income, the company only loses one of many employees.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Can´t stress the asymmetrical enough - a worker leaving loses all of his income, the company only loses one of many employees.
Yeah, but fortunately many different matches which don´t end at the same time and sometimes the EV team wins, sometimes it loses - so generally it doesn´t change much long term. For New Zealand demand will likely be pulled forward into Q4 which might help while demand is a bit slow due to macro environment..
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Elon and Gavin relationship continues:
Words of HABIT
Active Member
I subscribe to his daily newsletter on the markets. It’s incredible. This guy is no joke.
I just finished it and I am extremely impressed. I watch a ton of Tesla YouTube content. Way more than I probably should. And this is the best video I've seen in quite awhile.
This guy has tremendous experience as an auto industry analyst and M&A specialist.
There are a lot of nuggets in here that explain a lot of Elon's thinking and strategy. An interesting bit of advice he has for Elon is not to buy back shares but to do the exact opposite.
That's right, he suggests a new funding round to raise more capital. Please don't post your opposition until you watch the whole video. I don't know if he's right but his arguments are very persuasive.
In fact, it's so good that I'm going to watch it again.
GhostSkater
Member
No, Lars said it would the same immersion cooling cable technology, which indeed V4 Supercharger Stalls use
Oh, I'm sure.
I don't expect a new plan until after the 2028 expiration of the current one at which point there would be none active to retain him.
ByeByeJohnny
Active Member
Yeah, this is not a good comparison. Europe is very much not one job market. While it is much more common today than a couple of decades ago it takes a lot more to move even from a neighboring country than it does to move to another state in the US. Not only legally but also mentally. Never mind the language problem. My English is pretty decent but apart from the other Scandinavian countries it would not be easy to find any jobs outside IT and manual labor in the rest of EU. Even within most countries people are much less likely to move than in the US where few even think twice about moving to another state or coast.
Also a lot of those that actually move to another country is a version of Polish construction workers (leaving families behind) usually moving east/north working for lots less money than nationals.
This actually makes it harder for say a Swedish construction worker (or mechanic) to get a new job because there are a lot of EU immigrants competing who won't complain about salaries, vacation time, unsafe conditions etc. Because without a job they have to go back home.
The collective agreement has worked for a long time. It's not without issues but it historically exists instead of many labor laws. For example, as has been mentioned, there is no minimum pay in Sweden. Which ironically has caused Sweden to actually fight against a EU minimum pay since it would be lower than the agreement.
Many commenters seems too think this is some evil agreement imposed by unions. It's actually agreements (there are several different ones for different sectors) between different unions and (also several different) employer associations. You know, associations where Tesla would have an input if they actually cared. The employer associations also wants your company to sign the agreement.
The agreement adds very little extra cost. Like less than a percent. There are some additional pension costs but at a much lower percentage than say most 401 matching plans in the US.
As someone that has been on both sides. Both a union member, and now part owner of a company that has around 10 part time employees, I personally think this system works really well.
There is absolutely nothing that prohibits us from giving shares to any employees. Not that we do but we could. Or paying more than the agreement says. Which we do.
Another common misconception seems to assume workers has to be union members if there is a union at the workplace. If you're not you still get the same pay etc but the union does not represent you (or go on strike for you) if there is a problem. But nowadays it's really your choice. There used to be peer pressure about joining decades ago but that is pretty much gone. I doubt any of ours are. I've never asked.
Is this system perfect? No, but it works. If you want it to change it's something that should be done via a political process. Not because Elon Musk doesn't like unions.
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How many main stream ICE cars & trucks make fake zoom-zoom engine sounds, anyway?
There are a lot of rice burners, so yeah a lot of ICE fakery.
andrewt3000
Member
Ok.. I thought they had all vested but couldn't find a source confirming it and letting me know when. Thank you.
So, Since 2012 Elon Musk has been working toward the audacious 2012 and 2018 incentive packages... and since the end of Q4 2022 without any additional incentive (beyond his existing ownership). I mean... his performance seems different to me. He is sleeping at X/twitter... not at tesla. I am just curious if settling the lawsuit over 2018 incentives package (Tornetta v. Musk) and creating a new one would be a catalyst for the stock price.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Overall a very good interview with a lot of unique information derived from decades of experience working in the industry. Worth every minute for me.
Two things that stood out which made me twitch a little:
First, Nick didn't seem to integrate the Tesla Mission Statement into his evaluation. Because of this he seemed to focus on profits rather than the longer term effects on the world which the company has committed to. Considering his background this is completely understandable and supports his perspective, though I felt it important for investors to take the information and run it through the "Mission Filter" and form our own conclusions.
Second, is when he related caution and expressed disappointment with companies diversifying. The examples Nick shared were of GM and Chrysler buying other existing companies with the intent of strengthening their brand.
Tesla's diversification came entirely from within, sharing goals and resources. There has also been collaboration across companies, between Tesla, SpaceX, and X. Each part of Tesla is complementary to other parts and to the mission overall. Tesla's parts are more cohesive with one another when compared to the examples of GM and Chrysler attempting to bring completely different business ideology under a single umbrella. Because of this there is an advantage to Tesla having its fingers in so many pies which Nick may not be fully taking into account.
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I see lots of fair pro/against union anecdotes here.
From Tesla's perspective, Tesla Sweden does not have the mandate to enter collective agreements so they will not. Maybe Tesla US will change their policy, but likely not at least for a while as then they open up the fight everywhere and they don't want to take the fight everywhere. So the Swedish union will apply more pressure to force Tesla to do something they don't want. Tesla will likely not cave so they will have to apply even more pressure. Doing this is not cheap, the union have to pay workers for not working and not fulfilling transport contracts with Tesla will cost the companies doing this. But these companies have agreed to the collective agreement so they are now forced to do it, this is probably one of the reasons Tesla are so against unions. And the salaries have to be paid by someone and it will come from the fees that the union members are paying, that's why so few Tesla workers want to pay the fees.
For now Tesla seems to be doing okay without the few Tesla workers on strike. They will shuffle, hire a few new people and keep business as usual. The union will call them names "strejkbrytare"(strike breaker), "svartfot"(blackfoot) etc, but Tesla will not care. If they cannot unload the boats they will either find other non unionized boats or they will hire some non Swedish company to drive them on trucks from Berlin to Sweden. The distances are not huge anyway, it's a 7h drive from Giga Berlin to Tesla Malmö, is it even worth using boats for that? Stockholm is 13h away though.
Cost will go up slightly for Tesla and this will be added to the price of doing business in Sweden.
As Tesla doesn't cave in, expect the unions to start to play more dirty. Have workers standing outside of Tesla stores heckling customers, lots of negative articles in the press and lots of current thing people who suddenly have changed their mind and no longer want to buy a Tesla as if they ever considered it in the first place. This might drag on for a while, we have two very stubborn organisations with deep pockets. But hopefully Tesla can sign some "not a union"-collective agreement where they promise what they already offer and that they will only make EVs, but not joining IF Metall...
From Tesla's perspective, Tesla Sweden does not have the mandate to enter collective agreements so they will not. Maybe Tesla US will change their policy, but likely not at least for a while as then they open up the fight everywhere and they don't want to take the fight everywhere. So the Swedish union will apply more pressure to force Tesla to do something they don't want. Tesla will likely not cave so they will have to apply even more pressure. Doing this is not cheap, the union have to pay workers for not working and not fulfilling transport contracts with Tesla will cost the companies doing this. But these companies have agreed to the collective agreement so they are now forced to do it, this is probably one of the reasons Tesla are so against unions. And the salaries have to be paid by someone and it will come from the fees that the union members are paying, that's why so few Tesla workers want to pay the fees.
For now Tesla seems to be doing okay without the few Tesla workers on strike. They will shuffle, hire a few new people and keep business as usual. The union will call them names "strejkbrytare"(strike breaker), "svartfot"(blackfoot) etc, but Tesla will not care. If they cannot unload the boats they will either find other non unionized boats or they will hire some non Swedish company to drive them on trucks from Berlin to Sweden. The distances are not huge anyway, it's a 7h drive from Giga Berlin to Tesla Malmö, is it even worth using boats for that? Stockholm is 13h away though.
Cost will go up slightly for Tesla and this will be added to the price of doing business in Sweden.
As Tesla doesn't cave in, expect the unions to start to play more dirty. Have workers standing outside of Tesla stores heckling customers, lots of negative articles in the press and lots of current thing people who suddenly have changed their mind and no longer want to buy a Tesla as if they ever considered it in the first place. This might drag on for a while, we have two very stubborn organisations with deep pockets. But hopefully Tesla can sign some "not a union"-collective agreement where they promise what they already offer and that they will only make EVs, but not joining IF Metall...
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Strategy shift for solar installations to more external installers, estimate that Tesla could get 15% of inverter market in 2024:
teslamag-de.translate.goog
Sources used in article:
electrek.co
pv-magazine-usa.com
Bericht: Tesla will mit eigenem Photovoltaik-Wechselrichter Duopol auf US-Markt brechen
Das Solargeschäft von Tesla schwächelt – aber mit seinem eigenen Wechselrichter will das Unternehmen jetzt ein Duopol in den USA knacken.
teslamag-de.translate.goog
Sources used in article:
Tesla quietly held 'Installer Day' amid move to rely more on third-party installers
Tesla quietly held an “Installer Day” amid a move to rely more on third-party installers for its energy business. Over...
electrek.co
Tesla steps in as challenger to rooftop solar inverter duopoly
Enphase and SolarEdge dominate the U.S. sales of rooftop solar inverters, but Tesla may change that.
pv-magazine-usa.com
Wow, one of the most interesting interviews I have seen lately. The background that guy has (summarized as an intro to the video) is amazing with regards to the auto industry and on a long time scale. Would love to see a discussion between him (Tesla should raise money to get even more recession proof) and Gary Black (in the camp for share buybacks).
I am sure fossil fuel strategists are high fiving each other
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Sweden's former PM Stefan Löfven (in office between 2014-2021), who prior to being PM was also the former Chairman of... you guest it – the union in question IF Metall for six years – has now written about this on his Facebook-page. I don't have Facebook so I can't access it. But there's an article in Sweden's second biggest newspaper Expressen (A right-leaning tabloid. Right leaning in a Swedish context that is. In a US context it would probably be a fair bit left-leaning. At least further left than Biden...).
According to Expressen Löfven is accusing Tesla of having a "stale, obsolete view of their employees". He also writes that going forward he will request some other car than a Tesla when ordering a taxi. And there's more, but until there's some form of reporting in English you will have to make do with Google translate if you're interested.
www.expressen.se
His Facebook:
www.facebook.com
According to Expressen Löfven is accusing Tesla of having a "stale, obsolete view of their employees". He also writes that going forward he will request some other car than a Tesla when ordering a taxi. And there's more, but until there's some form of reporting in English you will have to make do with Google translate if you're interested.
Stefan Löfvens hårda ord om Tesla: ”Unken syn”
Stefan Löfven ryter ifrån mot Tesla. Den förra statsministern anklagar elbilsbolaget för ”en unken, förlegad syn på sina anställda” – och tänker inte längre åka Teslataxi. IF Metalls strejk har nu pågått i knappt tre dygn.
www.expressen.se
His Facebook:
Stefan Löfven
Stefan Löfven. 172 830 gillar · 88 pratar om detta. Tidigare partiordförande för Socialdemokraterna och Sveriges statsminister.
www.facebook.com
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I can't wait until Monday when we'll get back to talking about more relevant topics and stop beating this poor Swedish horse to death
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