Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[SOULPEDL]

Does anyone know why Cybertruck "would be difficult" in China per Elon long ago? There is no info out there on this gap, which I find odd by itself.

I believe I just read that the ones in China are "prototypes"... which prototype, right? For all we know, these could be decoys - older Test models no longer needed.

 

[growler23]

Much has been said (mostly by our esteemed @unk45) about how BYD in particular, and Chinese companies in general, have established multi-year head starts in parts of South America. These included arranging ongoing parts suppliers, vehicle and/or bus charging, and other infrastructure, as well as presumably long term relationship-building with local bigwigs.
My thought over the weekend was, if BYD looks like they can transition the automotive market fast enough in certain markets, why wouldn't Tesla just ... let them?
If the mission is truly to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy, as it clearly is from Tesla's actions over the past years, might Tesla, entirely consistently with their mission, leave some markets to BYD et al if those companies can do the job faster by leveraging their existing foothold?
This would leave Tesla to focus on areas that are more behind on the transition, thereby yielding an overall speed increase in the mission.
Is my logic flawed here? Global domination is cool and all, but to reference an old forum poster (@Gigapress, you still around?), Global Optimization is what all the cool kids want!
Food for thought anyway?

 

[Artful Dodger]

What if the problem lasts longer than two weeks?

Because the number of sea-miles to divert a cargo ship around Cape Horn is random? Unknowable? SCARELY?!

 

[mongo]

Text in accounting documents tends to read the same from year to year, differences are typical minor because that is the safe thing to do (also the easiest, but let's not go there). Only the numbers change.

Right, if such wording previously existed. My understanding was that @unk45's concern was based on the the idea that this was a new note, which it wasn't. So if concern should exist, it should have existed previously (with no known ill effects).

That is the only specially noted item, which immediately generates curiosity.

This is the first time AFAIK, that these factors ahem been clearly evident in the P&L.

The proof that there is something wrong is found in that PWC note that i attached. Such a note NEVER happens without a significant concern. That the per vehicle charge to reserves rose could be innocuous, but not when that note was included. That this happened without a qualification meant there was some compromise and, probably, dissent. Undoubtably that was both within PWC and TSLA.

I do not want to blow this out of proportion, but it is significant. We'll soon see evidence when fleet Tesla buyers ahem more extensive support and end-user training begins to happen.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Clearly there was a computer input problem. Nothing more, nothing less. The people present at the locale didn’t have the authority to rectify the situation. I suspect that the main person he spoke with may have been responsible for the initial computer input mistake and was afraid of losing his job and as a result was trying to cover his butt. His behavior otherwise doesn’t make sense.

None of that makes this a ‘Tesla/Elon’ problem. It makes it an individual person problem and if I’m in charge of that locale, Travis’s a$$ is grass. Not because he may have made the initial mistake, or didn’t know what to do in the moment, but because he clearly lied later on. Travis’s superior only knows what Travis tells him/her so can be entirely unaware.

Additionally, this guy doesn’t help himself, even a little bit. He was told beforehand, before he drove 5 1/2hrs that there was an issue, but went anyway and paid the rest of the money before seeing the car to determine it matched or not!?

He clearly lacks the skills and abilities to get things done he wants and needs. Then before he even gets his deposits and such back, he asks to be compensated with SuperCharger credits. ‍

I seriously need to open a school to teach adults how to navigate through the customer service experience. How to get to a person who actually has the authority to help. How not to shoot yourself in the foot in the first place. How to communicate effectively.

You sit for THREE hours waiting and then leave to eat!? That’s like waiting on hold and then hanging up to go pee so you can start the three hour queue again. Since he’d chosen to sit as his way to get his resolution, he should have wholeheartedly committed until the Tesla employees had to call the cops. Then he’d have been on the local evening news. Voila! Resolution.

Wow, talk about being a selective listener . . . .

There are far too many errors in your summary to list them all, but to hit the high notes:

1. He was TOLD to get some food after being there for three hours!?! Then the Tesla reps took the opportunity to skip out and lock the doors . . . .

2. He tried REPEATEDLY to reach a human, leaving three messages before he drove to pick up the car. NONE of his VM were returned by Tesla or anyone else.

3. Yes, Tesla screwed up BUT it is what they did afterwards which is shameful: circle the wagons, lie, and blame the customer.

It's all about span of control. Back in the early days Elon would visit with front line employees that interact with customers, and have all managers leave the room. He would hear things that he had no knowledge of. Now that Elon has his finger in some half dozen pies it appears that his ability to know what is going on has pretty much failed.

The buck stops with Elon Musk, and he has demonstrated (many times over now) that perhaps he needs a Gwyn Shotwell at Tesla . . . this sort of video can glean six figures or more of views, all of which will leave Tesla prospects wary. All for a lousy $1,500 lie to a long-time, repeat customer.

Our TSLA shares and Tesla would be better off if we didn't have so many fanbois with blinders on, so recommend you rewatch the video, and certainly Part 3 when it appears. It had damn well better have been a profound apology to that long-term, repeat buyer.

Shameful and pathetic behavior by Tesla is not going to stop until we, the OWNERS of TSLA, step up and make our voices known.

 

[Zero CO2]

i keep seeing that CT cannot be sold in China ??? forgive my ignorance ...why not ?

China Automotive Pick-Up Trucks

Pick-up truck sales rise as more cities ease driving restrictions.

www.trade.gov

not sure of the accuracy of this but if true no reason other than production constraints ...

 

[Musskiah]

Seems to me that Tesla wouldn't ship and display a vehicle to the public if they didn't intend to generate interest and sell it at some point

Whether or not they sell any CTs in China (and I'm not saying they will not eventually), it's the unique curiosity that gets butts (read: wallets) in the door. Then they tell their friends, then they tell THEIR friends....etc etc. It’s the new "falcon wings." All of a sudden they are educated and buying a M3 or MY.

In 2016, I used to take the X to CAVS games (when the CAVS were good) and afterwards in the parking lot, I enjoyed watching the Christmas Light Show draw a crowd of excited children who knew what falcon wings were, when their parents clearly didn't. The car danced and crowds of over 100 people stood in awe. Their parents were left thinking "Man, my kid wasnt kidding. I didn't know Teslas were so dope! Gotta check that ish out!" It's just brilliant advertising. So is the CT in stores where they may not even be sold in China.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Maybe TESLA surprises us: The new stamping area of Gigafactory Berlin-Brandenburg - I guess they simply doubled the Schuller Presses - should be finished by now. That would be the perfect time to ship the first Model 3 from Grünheide. I wouldn't mind when we see the same for Texas soon

It won't be the Model 3 (no gigacastings). If anything, they could use this equipement to accelerate the Gen 3 rollout.

That would be something for the 'after 10K release' announced by Elon.

That would be something, but I expect Elon to talk about AI and robotics, anything in the far future to put the analysts off the scent.

 

[scaesare]

There was NO indication they were having an issue meeting any of the metrics they state for four years. All we heard was "we are really filling the vehicle with amazing blah blah blah."
Even when they had the rendition that was sent to manufacturing they never said that the metrics they stated were not going to be met. They act like incompetent people by not owning up to their failure on so many levels. Their behavior is similar to those that consistently under-perform. It is similar to how Nokia represented itself.

I think it's generally understood things announced several years ahead of production and attempting to do based on where technical progress is anticipated to be at the release date are projections and not promises (as many people love to say).

The nature of fully refundable deposits is that if what was anticipated when announced is not what was could ultimately be delivered, you aren't obligated to buy when they disclose what the final product is. They did update you before you had to commit to purchase... to say they "withheld truth" because you didn't get the news on your schedule seems a bit of a stretch...

 

[Krugerrand]

While others are proud of their union...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752006186361372726

Clearly propaganda.

 

[Artful Dodger]

What is Lucid doing to get a 26% SP bump today? All I see is a shrouded outline of a new vehicle Lucid won’t make for ‘a few years’. (If they’re still around)

Wear is this bump of which you speak? I'm not whereing my glasses... /s

 

[Krugerrand]

Don't want to and can't are very different.

Absolutely. So which is it? I vote both.

 

[Artful Dodger]

So, my buddy Murphy 30-day wash rule has jumped in to help make sure I won't be able to buy back as many shares as I sold.

FTFY.

 

[navguy12]

My wife and I watched the 3 Equalizer movies this week. 2 on Hulu and 1 on Netflix. Amazed me how many EV advertisements that were pushed to us. I have never seen so many. Not the type I really would want to see from Tesla, but I didnt expect to see so many. Dont know if it is because we are in Florida now.

Would someone next door to you, watching those programs on the same channels and times get the same ads? Or are the ads customized based on other data about your spending habits? Honest question; I don’t have Hulu and I pay $16 a month for Netflix so I don’t get ads.

 

[Cult Member]

It won't be the Model 3 (no gigacastings). If anything, they could use this equipement to accelerate the Gen 3 rollout.


That would be something, but I expect Elon to talk about AI and robotics, anything in the far future to put the analysts off the scent.

You believe the current addition of Schuler presses is already for Gen 3? That would be an unusual long planned investment for Tesla, but great for a synchronized roll out on each continent.

 

[rallykeeper]

Dang...

More expensive: Every expensive thing that most people consider a need (housing, childcare so you can go to your job, college so your kids have a better chance, and hospital expenses so you can survive illnesses and injuries).

Less expensive: less costly items that you don't really need (Toys and TV's), or can probably put off buying and/or buy used (furniture, appliances, cars).


In other words, for many people, life has become:
We can't afford to buy a house, so we're stuck paying ever-increasing rent for a few more years...and we'll be going into huge debt for our kids to go to college...and we gotta help gramma with her hip replacement and recovery costs....but hey, at least we can get an 80" TV for pretty cheap, and move the 55" screen into another room, and get the younger kids a new remote control car.

And the people who love the status-quo will continue to say things like: "you could totally afford a house and college if you stopped buying Starbucks Coffee, Avocado Toast and giant TV's!!!!" As if a few dollars a day or a $900 TV every few years is going to make a dent as college costs are several $10's of thousand per year (which University will be first to hit total costs of $100K per year?!?!) and in many areas a $1,000,000+ house is 1300 square feet, 70 years old, and on a small lot...

Hate to wade into this since this chart is so poorly (and misleadingly) designed, but just to be clear...

Everything below the Average Hourly Wages line (114% higher) is more affordable, not less affordable, than it was in 2000. This includes: housing, food, cars, clothing, etc.

To keep this conversation from being too far OT...importantly for Tesla:

- Cars are much more affordable (and therefore more expensive cars with software upgrades like FSD are within reach of a lot more consumers).

- Retail electricity per KwH is more affordable than it was in 2000 (it rose 100%), while gasoline is less affordable (it rose by 160%); moreover, gasoline price volatility is a lot higher than electricity.

Electricity v. Gasoline since 2000

 

[Krugerrand]

Wow, talk about being a selective listener . . . .

There are far too many errors in your summary to list them all, but to hit the high notes:

1. He was TOLD to get some food after being there for three hours!?! Then the Tesla reps took the opportunity to skip out and lock the doors . . . .

2. He tried REPEATEDLY to reach a human, leaving three messages before he drove to pick up the car. NONE of his VM were returned by Tesla or anyone else.

3. Yes, Tesla screwed up BUT it is what they did afterwards which is shameful: circle the wagons, lie, and blame the customer.

It's all about span of control. Back in the early days Elon would visit with front line employees that interact with customers, and have all managers leave the room. He would hear things that he had no knowledge of. Now that Elon has his finger in some half dozen pies it appears that his ability to know what is going on has pretty much failed.

The buck stops with Elon Musk, and he has demonstrated (many times over now) that perhaps he needs a Gwyn Shotwell at Tesla . . . this sort of video can glean six figures or more of views, all of which will leave Tesla prospects wary. All for a lousy $1,500 lie to a long-time, repeat customer.

Our TSLA shares and Tesla would be better off if we didn't have so many fanbois with blinders on, so recommend you rewatch the video, and certainly Part 3 when it appears. It had damn well better have been a profound apology to that long-term, repeat buyer.

Shameful and pathetic behavior by Tesla is not going to stop until we, the OWNERS of TSLA, step up and make our voices known.

Stop it. Talk about selective hearing.

1. He said they suggested he go get some food. He didn’t have to. Nobody held a gun to his head. And yes, when he returned the doors were locked BUT ‘the guy’ (Travis?) opened the door for him and they spoke more so he wasn’t locked out and he was aware of their hours of business.

Seriously, if you’re going to sit for three hours while nothing happens - what was he even waiting for as he was told the person who issues the refund wasn’t going to be in until Monday - then you might as well sit there until you pass out from low blood sugar and they have to call the paramedics. Or as I said, sit until they have to call the cops.

Clearly, nobody at the Tesla store knew what to do or could do anything in the moment. That takes 30 seconds to find out not hours upon hours.

2. Then don’t drive 5 1/2 hours. Don’t show up. And as I said, don’t pay another cent (including a fee he claimed to have paid that he had no idea what it was for!?) UNTIL you confirm the car is what the website said it was. Like, duh.

3. I didn’t argue that. I clearly stated if I was in charge, Travis’s a$$ would be grass.

Stop being outraged for someone you don’t even know and is as incompetent as the person yanking his chain.

 

[Krugerrand]

Wear is this bump of which you speak? I'm not whereing my glasses... /s

View attachment 1013300

I’m only referring to today. It now stands at +22% in this second. What happened that the valuation of the company deserved that bump today? I don’t need an answer. It’s rhetorical and just stands as another example of The Market is made up bs.

 

[Carl Raymond]

Good news or bad news? Tesla is owed billions for megapacks delivered but not fully commissioned.

Primarily good. It means energy growing faster than the revenue tells. But needs tighter contracts and faster connection permits?

edit: I may have read something about lower prices for those who self commission their project. If so, Tesla already moving to address the problem.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1751993706553499729

 

[cliff harris]

Any talk of the cybertruck missing metrics seems nuts to me. Any other car company on the planet does not even pretend for a split-second that the concept cars they show off will ever, ever get made.
If Toyota delivered what they claim as reliably as Tesla, we would have a Toyota EV made of unobtanium running on solid state batteries with 50,000 miles range in stores by now.