Bootlicker. Rob Maurer? I'm glad I don't live on your planet. It's pathetic posts like this one that are making this place collapse.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Just so you/everyone know, Tesla already walked back the 20 million (not 10) goal by 2030 about a week ago:
"In 2020, Elon Musk stated that by the end of the decade, Tesla would be selling 20 million vehicles annually, doubling Toyota's output, the largest car manufacturer in the world."
I'm not going to add "much" to the lie/not lie debate because I actually don't care because it makes no difference to me, but in general, people should just know and I don't think bulls can even disagree with this, Elon usually overpromises, and underdelivers historically. Lying is meaning it's intentional, but at the end of the day, it's a potatoe/potato argument. Elon may not be intentionally lying because it's part of his hopeism/autism/spectrum thing so he is not trying to lie, but that's just how he is/rolls.
Just don't put too much stock into things stated, be doubtful, and my thought to Tesla bulls is just do something successful and doubters/people will shut up. We should get maybe China numbers for May soon? BYD had growth in May.
Tesla Rivals In China Grow EV Sales, Buffett-Backed BYD Rebounds
Promotions and incentives amid the price war boosted deliveries but could weigh on profits.
www.investors.com
"BYD on May 28 launched cheap, new hybrid electric vehicles capable of traveling 1,300 miles without recharging or refueling — opening a new front in the EV wars
BYD says its fifth-generation hybrid electric powertrain technology can deliver 2,100 kilometers (1,305 miles) on a full battery and full tank of gas, with some real-world tests reaching 2,500 kilometers."
That hybrid is crazy if true. You can go back and forth from LA to SFO almost two times on 1 tank.
Did you even read that MSN article?Just so you/everyone know, Tesla already walked back the 20 million (not 10) goal by 2030 about a week ago:
"In 2020, Elon Musk stated that by the end of the decade, Tesla would be selling 20 million vehicles annually, doubling Toyota's output, the largest car manufacturer in the world."
I'm not going to add "much" to the lie/not lie debate because I actually don't care because it makes no difference to me, but in general, people should just know and I don't think bulls can even disagree with this, Elon usually overpromises, and underdelivers historically. Lying is meaning it's intentional, but at the end of the day, it's a potatoe/potato argument. Elon may not be intentionally lying because it's part of his hopeism/autism/spectrum thing so he is not trying to lie, but that's just how he is/rolls.
Just don't put too much stock into things stated, be doubtful, and my thought to Tesla bulls is just do something successful and doubters/people will shut up. We should get maybe China numbers for May soon? BYD had growth in May.
Tesla Rivals In China Grow EV Sales, Buffett-Backed BYD Rebounds
Promotions and incentives amid the price war boosted deliveries but could weigh on profits.
"BYD on May 28 launched cheap, new hybrid electric vehicles capable of traveling 1,300 miles without recharging or refueling — opening a new front in the EV wars
BYD says its fifth-generation hybrid electric powertrain technology can deliver 2,100 kilometers (1,305 miles) on a full battery and full tank of gas, with some real-world tests reaching 2,500 kilometers."
That hybrid is crazy if true. You can go back and forth from LA to SFO almost two times on 1 tank.
Nothing in there about Tesla walking anything back.
Well, they should then. It will be embarrassing if they are off by a factor of ten…and that is totally possible at this point.
Tesla can be a solid profitable company even at 3 million a year. I think BMW is less than that (not sure). But enough of the crazy pie in the sky numbers. 2030 is a little over 5 years away. Even to get to 3 million they would have to knit or chit new models and that’s not happening. And I haven’t heard of any plans for entering new markets either.
Tesla is a great company and makes great products but install a spokesman that talks rationally and realistically. Right now anything tesla (Elon) says is considered as pure BS by everyone.
HyunKias are relatively slow to charge at Superchargers, but certainly the Supercharger access adds reliability.
Just so you/everyone know, Tesla already walked back the 20 million (not 10) goal by 2030 about a week ago:
"In 2020, Elon Musk stated that by the end of the decade, Tesla would be selling 20 million vehicles annually, doubling Toyota's output, the largest car manufacturer in the world."
I'm not going to add "much" to the lie/not lie debate because I actually don't care because it makes no difference to me, but in general, people should just know and I don't think bulls can even disagree with this, Elon usually overpromises, and underdelivers historically. Lying is meaning it's intentional, but at the end of the day, it's a potatoe/potato argument. Elon may not be intentionally lying because it's part of his hopeism/autism/spectrum thing so he is not trying to lie, but that's just how he is/rolls.
Just don't put too much stock into things stated, be doubtful, and my thought to Tesla bulls is just do something successful and doubters/people will shut up. We should get maybe China numbers for May soon? BYD had growth in May.
Tesla Rivals In China Grow EV Sales, Buffett-Backed BYD Rebounds
Promotions and incentives amid the price war boosted deliveries but could weigh on profits.
"BYD on May 28 launched cheap, new hybrid electric vehicles capable of traveling 1,300 miles without recharging or refueling — opening a new front in the EV wars
BYD says its fifth-generation hybrid electric powertrain technology can deliver 2,100 kilometers (1,305 miles) on a full battery and full tank of gas, with some real-world tests reaching 2,500 kilometers."
That hybrid is crazy if true. You can go back and forth from LA to SFO almost two times on 1 tank.
It’s a hybrid though? Couldn’t someone have built a hybrid with 2500km range at any point in the last 30 years by just making one with a significantly bigger gas tank?
In the ICE only world, a standard Volkswagen Passet Diesel can apparently be pushed to 1600+ miles/2500+ Kilometers on one standard tank of gas.
You could acheive 10,000+ kilometers of range if you wanted to design a hybrid that carried 100+ gallons of fuel (aware there would be rapid diminishing returns at some point).
Not really sure why range in a hybrid is really a good measure of anything.
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We'll have to see how it really performs on real non-company testing, and not stupid, crazy hyper mile-ing, but yeah, anyone can load up an EV with say, 1000 kWh battery and it will go further, but it's a cost/weight/thing too. One thing I've noticed here is anything that shows anything positive from anyone else not Tesla is bad, no one wants it, etc. 1200 miles on a tank is impressive if it's real. No need to downplay or hate the competition. Not everyone wants an EV (and I'm an EV owner) and even though no bulls would buy anything but a Tesla, it's good to not bury one's head in the sand and think no one can do anything great or "other" people not named you may be ok with getting gas maybe once a month rather than weekly. Again, the majority of people don't care about the climate debate nor have any agenda to love/hate Tesla or EVs.
Good range means for the common person, they don't have to get gas, or only fill up after a few weeks, maybe a month if they aren't heavy drivers, If you don't commute much and drive a 100 miles a month, you get gas once a year?
As for the article, Tesla is always under a microscope and we all know this, especially on this forum. If Elon come's out with a comment that they will make 20 million cars by early 2030, and all reports now show it's been removed, it'll definitely be seen as a walk back. Here is an article from 2022:
Musk:
"I think it's aggressive, but not impossible, that we could do 20 million cars in 10 years. And that would be a good number because there's 2 billion cars and trucks in the world that are in active use, so 20 million would be then 1 percent of the global fleet per year."
You can read it for whatever you want as we're all biased. I have doubts they will hit 20 million a year since growth for EVs has slowed, interest rates are high, and Q1 was a drop in sales. Even if flat, they would need insane numbers to get to 20 million, again, PER year, every year.
Years ago, I wanted Tesla to be Porsche but for EVs (great driving, aspirational brand with fat margins). But two things:
1) no one ever asked me; and
2) goes against Master Plan I
Bet TSLA
Active Member
So what do folks here think Elon is expecting of the shareholder revote on his 2018 compensation package?
He's said in the past that he believes that the most ironic/entertaining outcome is the most likely. What would that be?
He's said in the past that he believes that the most ironic/entertaining outcome is the most likely. What would that be?
So is it a lie that "Tesla walked back the 20 million (not 10) by 2030 about a week ago?
"potatoe/potato", right?
Forecasts change, from every company in the world. Sure, they all could be considered liars, but that's how business works. Apple, Ford, Rivian, etc. all change their projections publicly and much more often privately.
It's an odd thing to get fixated on.
Secret Master plan part Cinq: Persuade the disgruntled -56% from ATH TSLA investors to vote yes for a 52B compensation plan after dropping a bunch of block of shares on the open market to buy Twitter to keep freedom of speech and spend Tesla advertisement money to convince them to do so while the market is at ATH.
He has the same chances to get it as the Oilers to win the Stanley cup.
It is possible, however improbable.
Good luck McDavid. Good luck Musk.
i would rather Tesla license FSD to 20 million EVs per year than manufacture 20 million ... most of the 20 million are low margin any way ...
I predict 1 million Cybertrucks in a couple years .. it is the best all around vehicle on the road today
I predict 1 million Cybertrucks in a couple years .. it is the best all around vehicle on the road today
FYI:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/03/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Good, solid piece undermining the current hogwash about EV sales going down the tubes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/03/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Good, solid piece undermining the current hogwash about EV sales going down the tubes.
I don't care if it's a called a lie or not since that's the potatoe/potato thing.
I was just sharing with Webeevdrivers that it was not 10 million since he mentioned it, but the articles from 2022 were all about Elon saying they will make (assume sell) 20 million a year. Look at the quote specifically and look at my response (and I why even posted in the first place since I'm trying to post less now to lower the noise/clutter).
Yes, forecasts do change as you say and all the other companies do change projections, but my point again is that we can assume that Tesla is not assuming they will hit 20 million anymore by 2030 (or so).
Again, it's not something I was specifically fixated on, but to share that it wasn't even 10 million by 2030, but 20 million and as they were looking to sell double of Toyota per year.
My issue with this is not that it isn’t a tesla, but that an extra long range hybrid has zero relevance to Tesla, just as the range of an ICE car has zero relevance to Tesla.
The only way the range of a hybrid would be relevant to Tesla, is if Tesla was considering a radical change and getting into hybrids, which as far as I know isn’t on the cards.
Now if it was a new EV model with radically improved range that was going to hit the market, that would be extremely relevant to Tesla.
That's where we differ in thought. I felt it WAS relevant because a buyer not buying a Tesla now (or any EV), but got a hybrid because it's pretty good/decent vehicle with very low gas cost, can go 1200 miles on a tank, is "better" for the environment, has a lower cost as well will have an effect on Tesla as an investment/sales.
As all the recent reports show, EV sales, especially Tesla has dropped (other EV makers (relative to anything not Tesla) all had growth YoY), but hybrids have been pretty hot, selling extremely well. Again, if those new car buyers opt for a hybrid now, they probably will not be buying a car for another 3-5 years. Those are lost sales for folks who think EVs will completely replace everything and it affects/hurts Tesla FAR more than other makers since Tesla makes no hybrids. Why do you think even with the massive price cuts, Tesla sales have stalled?
This also ties into why I think Tesla isn't doing the new build cheap EV soon and accelerating and telling everyone they are FSD/AI/Robotics. Demand is simply not there yet due to better hybrids now and high cost still (and lack of charging).
I'm not saying they should make hybrids, just that it has an effect on EVs and especially Tesla (since all they do are EVs) growth/sales. At the end of the day, a car takes someone from A -> B. A lot of folks don't care if it's an ICE/hybrid/EV, but high range hybrids for folks who can't charge will affect sales.
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Again - a super long range Hybrid is meaningless to tesla. A standard low cost hybrid or ICE can already go double/triple the range of an EV today, so a new extra long range hybrid does not change the calculation in any way at all. If a pure EV was not already appropriate for someone today due to crap charging availability, then they were already not in the EV market before the announcement of a new even longer range hybrid.
All you are doing is rehashing a EV vs Hybrid/ICE argument that was already settled a decade ago. For what reason I have no idea.
Damn, it might just be my second cup of coffee, but I'm getting really anxious about this comp vote. I think it will be catastrophic if it fails. And now I read that another lawfare suit has dropped alleging inside trading by
Musk?!
I naively thought that we would be past Max Q by 2024. Instead, FUD has dramatically increased, legacy auto has rolled back commitment to EVS, industries being disrupted are doing everything they can to destroy Elon and Tesla and the massive short interest in a company that is now cash rich is both unprecedented and leads to a multitude of nefarious efforts to realize gains from betting against Tesla.
F (incompetent) CalPers, F (petulant) Koguan Lee, F (evil) Vanguard...
I voted yes with my thousands of shares. And yes, I think a "no" vote has the potential to be an existential threat. BUT I REFUSE TO SELL ONE DAMN SHARE IN ADVANCE OF THIS VOTE. The Mission is too important and Elon Musk is the most important industrialist and visionary in the world today.
Musk?!
I naively thought that we would be past Max Q by 2024. Instead, FUD has dramatically increased, legacy auto has rolled back commitment to EVS, industries being disrupted are doing everything they can to destroy Elon and Tesla and the massive short interest in a company that is now cash rich is both unprecedented and leads to a multitude of nefarious efforts to realize gains from betting against Tesla.
F (incompetent) CalPers, F (petulant) Koguan Lee, F (evil) Vanguard...
I voted yes with my thousands of shares. And yes, I think a "no" vote has the potential to be an existential threat. BUT I REFUSE TO SELL ONE DAMN SHARE IN ADVANCE OF THIS VOTE. The Mission is too important and Elon Musk is the most important industrialist and visionary in the world today.
Hybrids are hot, eh, selling more than pure gas/diesel cars?
Have you looked at the available new cars recently?
Here in europe THERE ARE NO PURE GAS/DIESEL CARS FOR SALE. Only hybrids or EVs.
well if you really looked there may be some occasional model. But hybrid version will be cheaper because of taxes.
Its really a silly statistic to claim that hybrids are hot.
Oh EV sales are steadily taking more market share here, most countries are around 30-40% EV. Sweden is at 60%, Norway over 80%>
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