TESLA UI / UX

[OxBrew]

Not sure it helps this discussion- but I personally make a large distinction between the sitting/playing/charging UI, and the driving UI.

I've done a lot of UI work in software myself and worked at Apple for a very long time, so I have some background and expectations about what works and what does not.

The sitting/playing UI is perfectly OK. Stuff is a little weird and hard to find, but overall it's a tablet UI and I think not a surprise to anyone. With the current UI fads being grey-on-grey and the point-and-click adventure for finding out what is live, instead of visually showing you what is live. The current fad is to emphasize white space, which makes readability suffer.


However- I think the driving UI is completely, measurably, horrible and makes the car more dangerous to drive than it should be. The driving UI has clearly not had any usability testing or user-group testing. You know, like Apple does.

Can we agree that looking away from the road for extended times is bad? I want to be able to see at a glance, what I need. I want to be able to make actions like wipers/lights/defogger/AC happen without having to hunt down UI elements. I want geographic stability for elements that I need while driving so that I don't have to visually search for what I need.

The Telsa UI fails in all aspects from a driving standpoint because they either don't care, or don't actually drive test it. Smallish buttons with grey on grey and small fonts. Hard to read at 70 mph glance. Extremely hard if you are over 45 and have presbyopia. There is no reason for everything to be small, low-contrast, and with tons of white space, while driving. Small buttons that are hard to hit with your hand bouncing around and swaying in the air.

The climate controls pop up when I hit the temperature- OK. Now while driving I have to look back at the road and stay focused. Look back, the climate panel has auto hidden. Thanks. Same with the wiper controls and high beam controls. Why do they hide, and why is the timeout so poorly chosen?

There is a bong for something to look at, and I'm busy actually driving and can't look right then. If I do get a chance to look it's this tiny oval with inscrutable text. If it was important enough for a bong, it's important enough for a large font. And that's if it stays up. Half the time it's gone by the time I look and I never know what happened. This is... not a good UI while driving. The UI should not be actively distracting me from the job of driving.


One last thing on the horrible driving UI. What's with wasting fully 1/3 of my most important screen for that stupid and useless driving animation? I'm driving! I don't have time to look at your stupid animation, and I honestly don't care what the car can see, ever. I don't understand why this is considered so important that it is always the primary focus of the UI.

That space could be used for larger, static controls. No hiding, geographic stabilty so I can get a muscle memory. Large enough to hit with waving/bouncing arms. Large enough to identify with a glance. But instead- white space with flickering animations I see in my peripheral vision.

It's not a UI designed for driving.

I've worked adjacent to UI design for 2 decades, designing amd implementing hardware that supports a wide variety of UI designs (mostly toys, industrial equipment controls, and lately e scooters and bikes).

Thanks for the rational critique, well said.

To everyone who says hey, it's subjective, and I love it (driving UI), that's not exactly true. You can think you love it, and the design language CAN be a matter of taste (think skins in video games or Windows themes, where the controls stay the same, but you get to choose themes), but even then, the design of the interplay of the colors affects usability.

Usability can be measured objectively, and iterations of designs compared in scientific user testing. It's actually amazing to watch skilled usability researchers design experiments to eliminate noise and focus on key safety questions.

In the end, after testing, objective conclusions can be reached. I think this is what the OP was trying to say through their rage rants.

I've heard dozens of actual design professionals basically say the same thing about the Tesla UI design. It's not even a close call, it's not optimized for driving. Elon himself said Tesla software sucks, they have to do better.

No serious UI designer that I've seen has given it a positive critique.

 

[Ratch]

I've worked adjacent to UI design for 2 decades, designing amd implementing hardware that supports a wide variety of UI designs (mostly toys, industrial equipment controls, and lately e scooters and bikes).

Thanks for the rational critique, well said.

To everyone who says hey, it's subjective, and I love it (driving UI), that's not exactly true. You can think you love it, and the design language CAN be a matter of taste (think skins in video games or Windows themes, where the controls stay the same, but you get to choose themes), but even then, the design of the interplay of the colors affects usability.

Usability can be measured objectively, and iterations of designs compared in scientific user testing. It's actually amazing to watch skilled usability researchers design experiments to eliminate noise and focus on key safety questions.

In the end, after testing, objective conclusions can be reached. I think this is what the OP was trying to say through their rage rants.

I've heard dozens of actual design professionals basically say the same thing about the Tesla UI design. It's not even a close call, it's not optimized for driving. Elon himself said Tesla software sucks, they have to do better.

No serious UI designer that I've seen has given it a positive critique.

Watch out - you might get banned for this kind of clear, insightful and rational post.

 

[Ratch]

Lol thanks mods for banning the dude. Shame really, I never even considered that this was such a contentious topic. I knew the UI had it's downsides, but I never thought it was genuinely horrible.

Really? Thanks for banning the creator of the thread that you’ve been spamming with pointless noise?

Who thanks mods for banning people? Gross.

 

[Ratch]

I will be done with this as I do my best not to keep going around in circles. You have your opinion and I have mine and we aren't changing each other's minds. However, you seem to be doing something that my 12 year old daughter unfortunately does when she realizes she is wrong, attempt to change the wording of what was said to make it more correct. Objective statements can be made when utilizing the opinions of others as long as those statements do not rely on personal feelings. So saying you made an objective statement (while still inaccurate) could have made it more difficult to dispute. But you did not say you made an objective statement, you said you had an objective opinion. These are not the same thing. Usually stating one has an objective opinion is an oxymoron. Nevertheless, there are instances when you can have one. For example: my objective opinion is Tesla has the most reliable chargers. You cannot, however, use a statement such as I have garnered the opinions of professionals (or anyone) as fact (because it’s still based off opinions) nor state that because there are best practices and a company does not use those specific practices that it is a fact that the product is trash. What you can say is your objective opinion is that they do not use best practices. Your tone, or bluntness while immaterial, merely highlights your error in speech.
While I enjoy my car, and have enjoyed each of the Teslas I have owned, I am not innately enamored with Tesla, and not Tesla Fanboy or Elon Stan. I am able to praise when I feel praise is warranted and critique when I feel I need to be critical. I have a history on this forum that demonstrates this to be true. Because of this track record one could look up said history and make an objective statement about my ability to be objective when it comes to Tesla. The same cannot be said for you. So your objectivity when it comes to Tesla can fairly be questioned.
And to address your ego statement: The whole premise that your opinion is fact and everyone who disagrees with your opinion is wrong is the essence of flexing one's ego.
You dislike the UI/UX, you feel it is horrible, you feel every other vehicle has a better UI/UX. All of these are valid feelings, and I cannot dispute your feelings as they are yours. I do not share these same feelings, and my feelings on this are also valid. We can debate the merits of how we came to these feelings, but not the feelings themselves. In the end we can agree to disagree. I hope you find an EV with a UI/UX more to your liking. When you do it is still unlikely that you will be able to say it is objectively better.
Hope you have a wonderful day.

It’s incredible how I get banned for ‘baiting’ when I tried to stay on topic but you (and others) who are more interested in winning some kind of language pedantry contest, that you created in your own minds, are left to wreck this thread. You never bothered to engage with the points I made in any detail (points now made again by others) which is that design / engineering solutions can and are OBJECTIVLEY measured and approved to be successful or failures as FACT. You tried to dismiss the analytical and reasoned conclusions of experienced professionals as ‘subjective feelings’ and ‘hyperbole’ to prove your point but in the end you look foolish because you couldn’t grasp this basic position. If you’d just stayed on topic instead of making this about your need to win an argument you didn’t even understand, we’d have a much more interesting thread.

 

[Ratch]

Not sure it helps this discussion- but I personally make a large distinction between the sitting/playing/charging UI, and the driving UI.

I've done a lot of UI work in software myself and worked at Apple for a very long time, so I have some background and expectations about what works and what does not.

The sitting/playing UI is perfectly OK. Stuff is a little weird and hard to find, but overall it's a tablet UI and I think not a surprise to anyone. With the current UI fads being grey-on-grey and the point-and-click adventure for finding out what is live, instead of visually showing you what is live. The current fad is to emphasize white space, which makes readability suffer.


However- I think the driving UI is completely, measurably, horrible and makes the car more dangerous to drive than it should be. The driving UI has clearly not had any usability testing or user-group testing. You know, like Apple does.

Can we agree that looking away from the road for extended times is bad? I want to be able to see at a glance, what I need. I want to be able to make actions like wipers/lights/defogger/AC happen without having to hunt down UI elements. I want geographic stability for elements that I need while driving so that I don't have to visually search for what I need.

The Telsa UI fails in all aspects from a driving standpoint because they either don't care, or don't actually drive test it. Smallish buttons with grey on grey and small fonts. Hard to read at 70 mph glance. Extremely hard if you are over 45 and have presbyopia. There is no reason for everything to be small, low-contrast, and with tons of white space, while driving. Small buttons that are hard to hit with your hand bouncing around and swaying in the air.

The climate controls pop up when I hit the temperature- OK. Now while driving I have to look back at the road and stay focused. Look back, the climate panel has auto hidden. Thanks. Same with the wiper controls and high beam controls. Why do they hide, and why is the timeout so poorly chosen?

There is a bong for something to look at, and I'm busy actually driving and can't look right then. If I do get a chance to look it's this tiny oval with inscrutable text. If it was important enough for a bong, it's important enough for a large font. And that's if it stays up. Half the time it's gone by the time I look and I never know what happened. This is... not a good UI while driving. The UI should not be actively distracting me from the job of driving.


One last thing on the horrible driving UI. What's with wasting fully 1/3 of my most important screen for that stupid and useless driving animation? I'm driving! I don't have time to look at your stupid animation, and I honestly don't care what the car can see, ever. I don't understand why this is considered so important that it is always the primary focus of the UI.

That space could be used for larger, static controls. No hiding, geographic stabilty so I can get a muscle memory. Large enough to hit with waving/bouncing arms. Large enough to identify with a glance. But instead- white space with flickering animations I see in my peripheral vision.

It's not a UI designed for driving.

I’d say it was average as a stationary infotainment Center but you make a good point that it’s bordeline dangerous when driving. Using voice has helped a bit still requires too much confirmation on screen.

The range and speed are the big issues for me - they should be using 30% of screen real estate but instead are lost.

I’m pretty sure Tesla could have their pick of elite UI / UX consultants / agencies so why has it been so bad for so long?

 

[WyoDude]

I think it’s really poor. Almost unusable when driving. Every part of it is amateurish. The use and division of space for functions, the prioritising of features and the typography and design hasn’t had any real thought applied from a user / motorists perspective. It’s been designed like a (poor) tablet app - which is a mind blowing decision given the use case.

What’s your background and experience in UI/UX?

 

[jjrandorin]

It’s incredible how I get banned for ‘baiting’ when I tried to stay on topic but you (and others) who are more interested in winning some kind of language pedantry contest that you created in your own minds, are left alone. You never bothered to engage with the point I made pretty clearly (and now made again by others) which is that design / engineering execution can and is OBJECTIVLEY measured and approved to be successful or a failure as FACT. You tried to dismiss the analytical conclusions of experienced professionals as ‘subjective feelings’ and ‘hyperbole’ to prove your point but in the end you just look silly because you couldn’t grade this basic position. If you’d just stayed on topic instead of making this about your need to win an argument you didn’t even understand, we’d have a much more interesting thread.

@OxBrew and @bo3bdar 's posts are examples of people who share your opinion, but are not being aggressive towards others. I would look at those examples, if you want to continue this discussion.

 

[Ratch]

Apple Car Play's cartoonish interface is not an improvement by any stretch of the imagination.

Tesla has the best UI of any vehicle and any EV I have seen (haven't played with Rivian's yet).

@OxBrew and @bo3bdar 's posts are examples of people who share your opinion, but are not being aggressive towards others. I would look at those examples, if you want to continue this discussion.

I’m not them tho. Forums live or die by the diversity of folks and posts so thanks for the patronising input but no thanks. I’ve not been rude or aggressive to anyone - if you believe I have please isolate and share.

Also, it’s not an opinion

 

[Ratch]

What’s your background and experience in UI/UX?

I have a BA in Design and have two decades experience developing comms for global brands on digital platforms and bespoke digital installations. I have worked with and led award-winning global digital agencies with elite front-end and UI / UX teams.

But perhaps most importantly, I love cars and motorcycles.

 

[OxBrew]

I have a BA in Design and have two decades experience developing comms for global brands on digital platforms and bespoke digital installations. I have worked with and led award-winning global digital agencies with elite front-end and UI / UX teams.

But perhaps most importantly, I love cars and motorcycles.

Early on you asked about other threads here covering this.

v11 software update Sucks was one of several that went on for ever, this one for 65 pages and 8+ months. Every detail of the UI was complained about and defended ad nauseum, by a whole range of novice to expert UI critics.

I think everyone that participated is just done with the whole conversation, it was excruciating. Anyone can find arguments in there somewhere to support their POV, whatever it is. There are buried in there several links to videos and essays that make some great observations about the UI, but probably impossible to find.

I don't recommend reading it, I'd say the first 1/3 at least is now irrelevant, as much of the UI was updated in the first half of 2022. And in general it was a contentious thread with a lot of crazy arguing, similar to what's starting to come up again in this thread. Just linking to it to show how polarizing a topic this is.

I have no energy to re-hash any of that. It was a good place to vent and let out your frustration, like group therapy, but not sure anything really got accomplished.

 

[WyoDude]

I have a BA in Design and have two decades experience developing comms for global brands on digital platforms and bespoke digital installations. I have worked with and led award-winning global digital agencies with elite front-end and UI / UX teams.

But perhaps most importantly, I love cars and motorcycles.

Seems like you should apply. Sounds like you could teach all of them what good design is, especially because you love cars and moto. I bet most people they hire don’t even like driving.

 

[bo3bdar]

I’d say it was average as a stationary infotainment Center but you make a good point that it’s bordeline dangerous when driving. Using voice has helped a bit still requires too much confirmation on screen.

The range and speed are the big issues for me - they should be using 30% of screen real estate but instead are lost.

I’m pretty sure Tesla could have their pick of elite UI / UX consultants / agencies so why has it been so bad for so long?

I did two main things to make it usable for me. Not good, but usable. First, I added a third party binnacle display so that I could ignore the main screen for speed/charge/blinkers/brights/drive. The binnacle has large high-contrast fonts, and geographic stability over updates. This allows me to ignore them moving stuff around and making it too small to read. Second, I use voice commands 90% of the time now.

However- even the voice command UI is wonky and badly thought out. It's like they don't actually have anyone who does UI design.

For example, I'll hit the button, say my command, and... about 15% of the time, nothing happens. If I get a chance to glance at the lower left corner it will be saying "command not understood". While I'm driving. You know what I could really use? I could use a 'bonk' sound to let me know it didn't work. I mean I'm using voice to avoid looking at the screen, the response should be audio too. Is this hard to figure out?

When I'm out of LTE range it doesn't work at all. This is really not particularly great, and maybe, maybe it could let me know. Play a voice saying "no connection." Don't make me look at the lower left corner of the screen in a grey-on-grey small font. Meanwhile my windshield is fogging up, and I just wasted time on something that doesn't work.

Sometimes it does the wrong command or mishears. I say "set the fan to 5", and it sets the seat heater to max. Again, with a text notice in lower left corner, which I'd really prefer to not have to babysit because it's too shoddy. Am I asking too much to repeat the command back? Just speak "fan set to 5." Great confirmation. I then know it worked, I know it understood. I don't have to repeat, or babysit it. Remember, I'm driving. I really do not need distractions from broken software.

Can I get Siri/Alexa/GoogleVoice caliber voice recognition? If not, why not? Why can't I just say "Hey, Tesla, turn on the wipers." ? If it's playing music, they can invert that signal to remove it from the microphone input, there is zero need to disable playback for microphone listening.

What I see is that Tesla does not seem to care at all about usability while driving, they only care about the gee-whiz aspects. They change the look including the icons, which makes zero sense in a driving scenario where I need instant recognition. Icons. Iconic. The word means unchanging. Instantly recognizable. Why did it change?

 

[bo3bdar]

Early on you asked about other threads here covering this.

v11 software update Sucks was one of several that went on for ever, this one for 65 pages and 8+ months. Every detail of the UI was complained about and defended ad nauseum, by a whole range of novice to expert UI critics.

I think everyone that participated is just done with the whole conversation, it was excruciating. Anyone can find arguments in there somewhere to support their POV, whatever it is. There are buried in there several links to videos and essays that make some great observations about the UI, but probably impossible to find.

I don't recommend reading it, I'd say the first 1/3 at least is now irrelevant, as much of the UI was updated in the first half of 2022. And in general it was a contentious thread with a lot of crazy arguing, similar to what's starting to come up again in this thread. Just linking to it to show how polarizing a topic this is.

I have no energy to re-hash any of that. It was a good place to vent and let out your frustration, like group therapy, but not sure anything really got accomplished.

That v11 UI change, almost got me to sell my car. The UI I had when I bought the car was destroyed on a whim, and I had no recourse. What I really, really want is an LTS version of the software, so that I can just drive my car and not have to worry about them wrecking it.

I didn't sell it because it's really fun to drive, and my binnacle display and voice commands put the UI pain to low boil. It's just a shame it can't actually be a good UI like I had when I bought the car. Large fonts, not grey. No stupid animation waste.


It might be wishful thinking, but I think that Tesla does in fact hear some of the forum chatter, and I think they did in fact see/listen to that thread. See the recent update where cards came back. The speedo is now separated from the other speed limit sign and autopilot speed indicator. I think that happened because of complaints about their horrible v11 UI.

 

[WADan]

The most important thing for me is for Tesla to improve its voice command processin. The UI interface would be less important if I can tell the car to do a few important things I need when I am driving.
And, perhaps instead of displaying certain important warnings/info on the screen (in small font or too low), it can say it out loud!

 

[Ratch]

Seems like you should apply. Sounds like you could teach all of them what good design is, especially because you love cars and moto. I bet most people they hire don’t even like driving.

I would love to be part of focus testing (if they do it lol) but they have access to the best people on their doorstep (California) A company like Tesla should prioritise this - if this were Apple, the interface would be as important as the battery and motor tech. As I said, if you’re going to commit to a hyper minimal dashboard like that, which I think was a bold (great) decision and is a USP and thus focus all the functions on a single central touchscreen - it has to be an INCREDIBLE execution. It needs to be a 9.5/10 and it’s really a 5/10 - that’s how far off they are.

What baffles me is, if Musk knows this why isn’t he raising hell over it?

 

[Ratch]

Early on you asked about other threads here covering this.

v11 software update Sucks was one of several that went on for ever, this one for 65 pages and 8+ months. Every detail of the UI was complained about and defended ad nauseum, by a whole range of novice to expert UI critics.

I think everyone that participated is just done with the whole conversation, it was excruciating. Anyone can find arguments in there somewhere to support their POV, whatever it is. There are buried in there several links to videos and essays that make some great observations about the UI, but probably impossible to find.

I don't recommend reading it, I'd say the first 1/3 at least is now irrelevant, as much of the UI was updated in the first half of 2022. And in general it was a contentious thread with a lot of crazy arguing, similar to what's starting to come up again in this thread. Just linking to it to show how polarizing a topic this is.

I have no energy to re-hash any of that. It was a good place to vent and let out your frustration, like group therapy, but not sure anything really got accomplished.

If there’s one useful thing that has come out of this thread it’s MAYBE enlightening some of the more difficult participants here, that design is not a vibes based emotional endeavour based on ‘feelings.’

Design is problem solving with as much elegance as possible. It is a science. There are RULES - which Tesla has broken multiple times on their interface. It’s about simplicity and logic and in this case, the ruthless reduction of all barriers to the users goal - intuitiveness.

Design is not like art. It must function and deliver and ultimately can be deemed / stated / judged as a successful response or not, often by consensus of professionals but also users. Who does the judging? People who know what they’re talking about. Not randoms - sorry if this stings. This us why we hire architects and plumbers and photographers.

That was ultimately my point and as someone ELSE eventually said (which I had also said before others polluted this thread) just because you like it, does not mean it’s any good.

 

[Utumno]

I love designers, they go all crispy when they get roasted.

 

[Ratch]

Some basic thoughts on what they could do to make a quick impact on usability. I’m commenting on the Model 3 / Y only with single screen:

1) Make everything higher contrast and 30% larger - buttons and type. Redesign to accommodate. Use industry standard automotive icons where possible. Set minimum sizes for things. Create rules.

2) Develop a ‘full screen’ system where any function you tap for fills the whole screen - so tapping / or sliding CLIMATE momentarily fills the ENTIRE screen, or most of it. Same for incoming calls etc. Same for any other primary functions.

3) CONSIDER a HUD with minimal info - current Speed and Battery Range might be all.

4) Remove the Autopilot graphics from main screen entirely it’s pointless - replace with a large permanent frame showing critical info Speed / Range / Warnings etc.

4) I would prefer to see a simple physical minimal climate controls ‘bar’ of some type mounted below the screen, thus freeing the screen from a quite complex set of functions. I can adjust the climate in all functions in my BMW without taking my eyes off the road. This may be tricky as the venting is electronic.

4) Headlights / Fogs / Wiper Speed / Demistimg must be available at all times on the main screen. How these need hunting around for but fart noises have a shortcut and are quicker to get to, speaks volumes.

5) Musk likes open source. Consider opening the UI (not the UX) up via a strictly curated ‘app store’ to third parties so users can choose their vibe.

6) Test test test. Then test again. And with random diverse groups - NOT just internal teams. They should be testing for different things - bugs, latency, efficiency etc.

7) Increase the use of sound design as confirmation / failure feedback for requests. Repeat voice commands. Announce incoming calls etc.

8) Test again.

9) Test.

Musk has spoken about ‘input is error’ but I’ve never inputted so much in any car before.

 

[Ratch]

I love designers, they go all crispy when they get roasted.

Good one. Bet you didn’t even borrow it either, came up with it all by yourself.

 

[OxBrew]

Some basic thoughts on what they could do to make a quick impact on usability. I’m commenting on the Model 3 / Y only with single screen:

1) Make everything higher contrast and 30% larger - buttons and type. Redesign to accommodate. Use industry standard automotive icons where possible. Set minimum sizes for things. Create rules.

2) Develop a ‘full screen’ system where any function you tap for fills the whole screen - so tapping / or sliding CLIMATE momentarily fills the ENTIRE screen, or most of it. Same for incoming calls etc. Same for any other primary functions.

3) CONSIDER a HUD with minimal info - current Speed and Battery Range might be all.

4) Remove the Autopilot graphics from main screen entirely it’s pointless - replace with a large permanent frame showing critical info Speed / Range / Warnings etc.

4) I would prefer to see a simple physical minimal climate controls ‘bar’ of some type mounted below the screen, thus freeing the screen from a quite complex set of functions. I can adjust the climate in all functions in my BMW without taking my eyes off the road. This may be tricky as the venting is electronic.

4) Headlights / Fogs / Wiper Speed / Demistimg must be available at all times on the main screen. How these need hunting around for but fart noises have a shortcut and are quicker to get to, speaks volumes.

5) Musk likes open source. Consider opening the UI (not the UX) up via a strictly curated ‘app store’ to third parties so users can choose their vibe.

6) Test test test. Then test again. And with random diverse groups - NOT just internal teams. They should be testing for different things - bugs, latency, efficiency etc.

7) Increase the use of sound design as confirmation / failure feedback for requests. Repeat voice commands. Announce incoming calls etc.

8) Test again.

9) Test.

Musk has spoken about ‘input is error’ but I’ve never inputted so much in any car before.

#7: Unless I missed it in one of the massive v11 threads, I think this is the first time I saw this suggestion. Makes sense, seems so obvious once you think about it. Especially like the bong for failure of a voice command, and re/reading successful commands.

#4: you can add all but headlights to the app dock (there's an extra step to get the icons to pop up in the chooser pop up, I forget, long press or something. Poor execution, as usual.). Headlights pop up when you flash the brights with the stalk (and then disappear quickly).

3: There are a few aftermarket and/or DIY HUDs you can add. Mostly fully customizable. I plan to add one at some point.

Everything else, and more, has been beaten to death here, and I agree with all of it.

The rules part is key, not just for Tesla, but all UI. Even Apple messes that part up, rarely, but when they do, it's infuriating. The worst is inconsistent tap Done to confirm: sometimes it's there, sometimes there's no "Done", just have to assume the settings are set and navigate away. Pick one and stick to it.

Flat UI sucks. I'm not saying we need to go back to fully rendered buttons and dials, but use more visual cues to show what's possible. Make the word "Done" inflate/deflate as it's pressed, or something.

As brilliant as Jony Ive is, I blame him for it.