Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA

[GuyHall]

Does anyone have research on the size of Tesla CA VPP is in comparison to other peaker plants? Or the cost per kwh to the grid in comparison to other peaker plants. A quick check seemed to show most peaker plants were about 50MWs and up. Tesla VPP with about 3,500 homes started off at about 25MWs and dropped to below 20MW into the evening (because i imagine PWs hitting their reserve limits.)

Any insights?

 

[Redhill_qik]

First of all, i think VPP are a marvelous idea - both compensating power wall owners and providing clean peaker power to the grid during challenging periods. That aside, if i have to pull energy during an event from the grid after my batteries hit the reserve limit, am i charged at the $2 rate or the PG&E peak rate of $0.56 / KWH?

Any electricity that is imported from the grid is at the standard TOU rates for the period.

 

[arnolddeleon]

My system missed the event today because of local power outage. I didn't think to check on what the VPP thought my system was doing.

 

[garrity]

Yep, wholesale rates have exceeded the $2/kWh ($2000/MWh) price level. So they should pay people more, particularly in areas where wholesale rates have exceeded that level.

It’s a two edged sword bec most of the time it is well below $2000 during events. Though this week has not been ordinary. Some DRP’s are paying out 4x rate for todays event

 

[jboy210]

Yeah that’s why PG&E made me name them as an insured in case my Powerwalls harm PG&E. I’m the only idiot on TMC with this insurance.

And Im not even enrolled in the VPP. Holeydonut = loser

Not sure if you are better or not better for being in the VPP. We are fearing an outage with this high demand so even though we are enrolled we set the reserve to 70%.

And to reinforce this, our daughter came home to a power outage last night at her house on the Peninsula. 10PM, no power, and 90 degrees is no fun. And trying to sleep in that sucks. I am sure she wished she had a Powerwall or two.

 

[GuyHall]

Does anyone have research on the size of Tesla CA VPP is in comparison to other peaker plants? Or the cost per kwh to the grid in comparison to other peaker plants. A quick check seemed to show most peaker plants were about 50MWs and up. Tesla VPP with about 3,500 homes started off at about 25MWs and dropped to below 20MW into the evening (because i imagine PWs hitting their reserve limits.)

Any insights?

I just found out about a local peaker plant - Roseville State Power Augmentation Power Site (RSPAPS). It can produce 60 MW.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Here is the PG&E VPP Fleet Home data that I collected for the 9/5 event at 10 minute intervals. At 4:00pm when charging stopped it was at 783 kW, so not all Powerwalls were at 100%. The peak discharge was at 6:20pm at 24,679 kW with an estimated 49.3 MWh delivered during the event with 3,464 homes.

 

[ModelS]

Hey guys maybe this is a dumb question, but I just joined VPP and went through a couple of events, but how do I tell how much I’m being paid after each event ends?

 

[Redhill_qik]

Hey guys maybe this is a dumb question, but I just joined VPP and went through a couple of events, but how do I tell how much I’m being paid after each event ends?

It is difficult to get this precisely as you need to determine your Powerwall discharge baseline average from the same event hours during the 10 weekdays that precede the event day if it was on a weekday or the 4 weekend days if the the event day is a weekend or holiday. You then take the Powerwall discharge amount during the event and subtract the baseline and multiply it by $2.

A quick-and-dirty estimate would be to use the discharge for the event hours for the last non-event day and use that as your baseline.

 

[wwhitney]

Trying to understand precisely what changes would result in PW behavior if a NEM1 system with PV and "Export Everything" turned on would join VPP. Where Peak is 4-9 p.m., the event is 6-9 p.m. My inferences:

- If PV would not fill the PWs, they will grid charge to 100%.
- Instead of dumping down to the reserve starting at 4 p.m., they will dump down to the reserve starting at 6 p.m.
- NEM credit is unchanged, but you get extra credit for the export from 6-9 that is above the average such export, as per the post just before this one.
- Possibly subtle behavior change in trying to keep some above reserve PW capacity to avoid any grid imports for house loads during the event period?

Is the above correct and complete?

Thanks,
Wayne

 

[cwied]

Trying to understand precisely what changes would result in PW behavior if a NEM1 system with PV and "Export Everything" turned on would join VPP. Where Peak is 4-9 p.m., the event is 6-9 p.m. My inferences:

- If PV would not fill the PWs, they will grid charge to 100%.
- Instead of dumping down to the reserve starting at 4 p.m., they will dump down to the reserve starting at 6 p.m.
- NEM credit is unchanged, but you get extra credit for the export from 6-9 that is above the average such export, as per the post just before this one.
- Possibly subtle behavior change in trying to keep some above reserve PW capacity to avoid any grid imports for house loads during the event period?

Is the above correct and complete?

Thanks,
Wayne

I don't think there is any grid charging unless you turn it on explicitly. I've never been in a situation that needed it, though.
During the charging period, all solar goes to the Powerwalls irrespective of the configured mode. No discharge will happen until the discharging period.
There is no attempt to avoid drawing from the grid during the event period. It just dumps at maximum allowed by the export limit until the reserve is hit.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Trying to understand precisely what changes would result in PW behavior if a NEM1 system with PV and "Export Everything" turned on would join VPP. Where Peak is 4-9 p.m., the event is 6-9 p.m. My inferences:

> If PV would not fill the PWs, they will grid charge to 100%.
You would need to enable this in the Settings -> Powerwall tab first. I don't recall anyone posting on the behavior as it if it starts charging from the grid at the start like Stormwatch does or if it is "smart" about PV production rate. Solar does go to the Powerwall with the house powered from the grid until you get to 100%

> Instead of dumping down to the reserve starting at 4 p.m., they will dump down to the reserve starting at 6 p.m.
The Powerwall start discharging at the beginning of the event hours, that has mostly 6:00pm, but it was also 5:00pm on 8/31 and 9/4. At the end of the event the Powerwalls stop discharging and revert to normal behavior, so if you are using Export Everything and the reserve wasn't reached then it will continue to discharge

>NEM credit is unchanged, but you get extra credit for the export from 6-9 that is above the average such export, as per the post just before this one.
NEM credit is correct, but the VPP isn't an extra credit it is an extra payment "by the end of March 2023" for the increase in Powerwall discharge for the event hours from the baseline discharges in the days before.

> Possibly subtle behavior change in trying to keep some above reserve PW capacity to avoid any grid imports for house loads during the event period?
Nothing like this has been reported by anyone and since the discharge start times have been after the start of Peak times and the Powerwalls are not discharging you will get Peak imports.

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

Just got a text from PG&E about rotating outages.
My address is in block 6C which is listed in the effected blocks.

Do I bail on the VPP or roll the dice? Pre-cooling the house right now but it gets hot pretty fast when all AC is turned off.

 

[tivoboy]

Rolling outages are usually 25 min. Could you handle that?

 

[dailo]

Just got a text from PG&E about rotating outages.
My address is in block 6C which is listed in the effected blocks.

Do I bail on the VPP or roll the dice? Pre-cooling the house right now but it gets hot pretty fast when all AC is turned off.

View attachment 849679

If it was me, I would leave my reservation at 100% and decrease as time goes by and load goes down. Not the best thing for VPP as you are not discharging when they need it most, but a good balance between exporting to grid and making sure you have power.

 

[cwied]

Just got a text from PG&E about rotating outages.
My address is in block 6C which is listed in the effected blocks.

Do I bail on the VPP or roll the dice? Pre-cooling the house right now but it gets hot pretty fast when all AC is turned off.

I would just set my reserve high and see what happens. Peak net demand is around 7pm today, so you might be able to lower your reserve and participate in the last part of the event if outages are avoided.

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

Rolling outages are usually 25 min. Could you handle that?

Yea that wouldn't be a problem.
Unless it happens after about 8:15 when my PW2 hits the 5% reserve state.

I might keep my reserve at 100% for the first hour like some suggested and see how that goes.

 

[astrorob]

something of a minor miracle happened in oakland/berkeley. the air temperature is down to 85F or so. a breeze has come off the ocean so hopefully the SF peninsula and the near east bay is not straining the grid so much anymore.

 

[astrorob]

@dailo that is interesting, i didn't know about block 50 blocks. turns out i am on one but then according to PGE 50% of customers are on one.

anyway i was more thinking that the extreme heat would cause uncontrolled and possibly cascading outages rather than rotating outages.

strange, my blue bill clearly says rotating outage block 50, but PGE's web tool says i am in 5G. i realize 5G might look like 50 but it is definitely a 50.

i wonder which one is correct.

5G is on the list of rolling blackout blocks right now. is there any way to know what blocks they activated, if they do?

 

[tivoboy]

something of a minor miracle happened in oakland/berkeley. the air temperature is down to 85F or so. a breeze has come off the ocean so hopefully the SF peninsula and the near east bay is not straining the grid so much anymore.

Yes some sort of 15-20 degree shift started to happen about 90 minutes ago in the north bay and 15-20 degrees came off in about an hour. It’s working it’s way south and here in Palo Alto we’re expected to drop nearly 25 degrees in the next three hours which is DEFINITELY NOT what it did yesterday so yes it would be very welcome.