Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA

power.saver

Grid Specialist
Supporting Member
Mar 4, 2018
603
637
Arcadia, CA
Soon to be available in CA, here is a link to the program.


Let's see what this has to offer and how those that opt-in are impacted and compensated.
 

bmah

Moderator
Supporting Member
Mar 17, 2015
4,166
7,723
Lafayette, CA, USA
1626552846681.png
 

SaveOurPlanet

Member
Jan 6, 2018
251
150
San Francisco
I suspect this may be the PG&E Distributed Energy Resources Partnership pilot, some of us can sign up in September. Not sure what’s the compensation beyond NEM credits. Not sure if Tesla can go on its own as a micro-grid without CPUC approval.
 

VickiSoCal

Member
Apr 28, 2021
26
19
Orange County
If I expect to be a net producer at year end and my batter y is usually charged up by noonish if only I use it overnight, what is the advantage to me to store and then sell back just 86% of the power I generated from 4-9 pm when I can sell back 100% directly from noon to 4 pm?
 

wwhitney

Member
Nov 2, 2017
965
1,311
Berkeley, CA
what is the advantage to me to store and then sell back just 86% of the power I generated from 4-9 pm when I can sell back 100% directly from noon to 4 pm?
If the NEM rate you get is more from 4-9 p.m. than from 12-4 pm, by a factor of at least 1/86% = 116%.

Plus you'd being doing a small service for the grid, possibly reducing fossil fuel usage, etc.

Cheers, Wayne
 

wwhitney

Member
Nov 2, 2017
965
1,311
Berkeley, CA
I thought if, at the end of year, you were a net producer, you just get paid a very low, flat rate. (SCE)
Yes, sorry I read right over that part of your post. So if you are a net producer for the year, and your energy charges for the year are 0 (or NBCs only), no economic benefit to you, from what I've heard so far. Unless there is a detail we are missing, the program is badly designed (economically) for customers like that.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Zabe

Member
Jun 11, 2021
77
47
Placerville, CA
It will be interesting to see how this is deployed. If the virtual power plant gets access to real-time pricing from CAISO someone (Tesla) could make some serious money charging the virtual power plant when real-time prices are low and discharging when prices are high. Now how that filters down to all of the end users who knows. In reality CAISO is running a nodal market where prices are set at something like 3000 different busses across the system, how that would work with batteries in different geographical areas at different prices, again who knows. I think it would reek some havoc on those of you who are trying to lower your true up costs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BGbreeder

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,282
11,621
Riverside Co. CA
It will be interesting to see how this is deployed. If the virtual power plant gets access to real-time pricing from CAISO someone (Tesla) could make some serious money charging the virtual power plant when real-time prices are low and discharging when prices are high. Now how that filters down to all of the end users who knows. In reality CAISO is running a nodal market where prices are set at something like 3000 different busses across the system, how that would work with batteries in different geographical areas at different prices, again who knows. I think it would reek some havoc on those of you who are trying to lower your true up costs.

Most people wont be charging from the grid, like you are. Most will be charging from their solar. I have no idea how they will handle something like this, since people will in general want to be covering their OWN usage during peak time, which is likely also when they will want to "provide help to the grid".

The number of people who have powerwalls without solar in CA is likely a fairly small installed base. I realize your setup is that way, but I feel like its a fairly small number. Much more likely is solar + powerwalls.
 

Zabe

Member
Jun 11, 2021
77
47
Placerville, CA
Thinking about it a little more it does not make sense with my setup and rate plan. I already rate arbitrage on EV2A rates. I basically get all my electricity needs met at the off-peak rate around .18c/kwh and I use the powerwalls to power through the .39/.50c/kwh part-peak/peak pricing every day 3pm-12pm. And that is in the summer time, winter arbitrage is .37c vs .18c.

Unless somehow the virtual power plant can get me charged up at an even lower rate....
 
  • Like
Reactions: VickiSoCal

Zabe

Member
Jun 11, 2021
77
47
Placerville, CA
I believe it is theoretically possible to get paid for just being on standby, e.g. "spinning reserve". I expect that's where most of the value could come from.
Spinning reserves get a capacity payment for being on standby. Spinning reserves also need to be able to produce the energy that has been reserved on demand and would get an energy payment for that service.
 

cali8484

Member
Jul 8, 2018
271
148
California
It seems the general consumer sentiment towards virtual power plants have turned more negative. I wonder how much the power outages and energy insecurity feeling have contributed.
 

jhn_

Member
Jan 21, 2021
226
240
Northeast United States
Absolutely not. Unless I’m getting 20 times the going rate per kilowatt hour, it’s a no go for me. SCE can go F them selves. I had to get solar and power walls because rates are so crazy high. No way I’m going to give them my generated power for what probably will be for pennies
For the Tesla VPP in New England with National Grid as our utility we are paid about $1/kwh. But they don’t count it that way, instead they pay us per sustained output. If you can sustain 5kw output for the duration of a 2-3hour “event”, they pay is $40 in the winter and $180 in the summer per kw. So max payout is (5kw x $180) + (5kw x $40) = $900 per year per Powerwall.

From the participants in the program longer than me, I have heard from they are all getting the max payouts.

There are a max 5 events in the winter and 60 in the summer for our utility and state. Each utility is different, for example Eversource in our same state pays out a bit better.
 

BGbreeder

Member
Jun 19, 2020
358
218
Bay Area
For the Tesla VPP in New England with National Grid as our utility we are paid about $1/kwh. But they don’t count it that way, instead they pay us per sustained output. If you can sustain 5kw output for the duration of a 2-3hour “event”, they pay is $40 in the winter and $180 in the summer per kw. So max payout is (5kw x $180) + (5kw x $40) = $900 per year per Powerwall.

From the participants in the program longer than me, I have heard from they are all getting the max payouts.

There are a max 5 events in the winter and 60 in the summer for our utility and state. Each utility is different, for example Eversource in our same state pays out a bit better.
Thanks, that is helpful, though I think the max total is $1,100, if NG draws summer and winter. Wouldn't the worst case power cost would be $1/kWh, assuming that they used a full sixty events in the summer, as it might be closer to $60/kWh if NG did it only once? Or am I missing something?

All the best,

BG
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top