My utility put in two different peak periods just to be a-holes as the app only lets me guarantee one period is respected as peak...
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Tesla: we need more control over our PowerWalls
- Thread starter Ulmo
- Start date
I'm trying to work out exactly what is going on with the way my PW2 is charging from Off-Peak overnight. I've got it set in TBC cost-saving mode. Originally (over the winter) it would charge to 100% and then start discharging at the start of the expensive rate. With the increase in solar generation now the days are starting to extend in the UK, I had already started to do what John suggested by shortening the off-peak period to reduce the amount stored in the battery. However in the last week or so I've noticed that even though I set the off-peak period back to the full time, the battery is not charging to 100%. It's typically only going to around 70% +/- 5% and then sits at that level until the start of the normal rate. It's as if it's decided how much generation I will get and so is not charging fully. Which would be fine except 2 days ago the weather was rubbish (and I knew it would be from the forecast) but there was no way to actually get the PW to fully charge from off-peak electricity so I ran out of stored energy about 4 hours before off-peak started again. I would expect that behaviour in balanced mode maybe but not in cost-saving mode. Does anyone have a good idea of the actual logic being used behind the scenes? The app is reporting Version 1.45.0 - not sure if that is the Powerwall vesion or the app version!
There are a lot of UK users that have the same complaint - the system is basing its operation on history, not forecast. So, in the highly variable weather in the UK, the results are not nearly as good as one would hope.
Sorry I don't have any more useful information, other than the fact that you're not alone.
Thanks for your confirmation. I've since written a small utility that runs on my Raspberry Pi that allows me to set the backup percentage automatically during off-peak electricity period so that I can essentially set a minimum charge level when off-peak period ends. I implemented that following two nights ago where the Powerwall decided to only charge up to 26% overnight which left me out of power with 6 hours left to off-peak electricity. The weather forecast was pretty accurate in suggesting there would be minimal generation but obviosuly the powerwall does not take any notice of that, simply the fact that the previous two days had good generation...
I'd love to have a way to set that "minimum charge level at end of off-peak" without having to buy a backup gateway (not available here when I bought my PW). I've previously asked Tesla support to add this feature (sensibly a min + max level) and I'll have to ask again as this time of year seems to be particularly traumatic for Tesla's algorithm which also appears to consider the solar generation of several days ago but ignores yesterday's generation.
Had a Powerwall 2 and gateway installed in April. It's purpose is to cover power outages (rural location puts us at risk), make better use the solar power from our PV (rather than export to the UK grid), and to shift load by charging the battery at cheap overnight rate from the grid. The later will be the main mode of use over October to March.
We are getting heartily sick of the lack of local control of the gateway. Who really cares that we can (maybe) see what our Powerwall is doing from anywhere in the world with an internet connection, when we can't immediately control it locally and maybe not even at all if there are internet connectivity or server problems. The increasingly flaky firmware Tesla release (without explanation), not to mention the UI downgrade of the v4 app (did people really get paid to develop that!!) is also a frustration.
The best approach for us would be to be able to change the power reserve percentage locally on the gateway via API - no need for internet connectivity, no need for Tesla mothership servers, no delay while things maybe communicate or not. Is there a way to do that via API? Has anyone got something like that working directly on the gateway? We have tech skills (see more below) just need pointing in the right direction.
We have tried to use time-based control, but clearly the algorithm is not designed to allow for the varied nature of UK weather (today I may generate 19kWh, and tomorrow only 3kWh) nor how our domestic power consumption varies from day to day. Doesn't matter how much data Tesla have, it repeatedly does not charge overnight on the cheap electricity. What would work perfectly is to simply be able to tell the gateway daily what percentage we want the Powerwall to be charged to using cheap off peak power. As humans we can look at the local weather prediction, consider our activities (things Tesla mothership can not know) and set that percentage before bedtime.
Currently we run in self-powered mode and adjust the power reserve percentage accordingly, but it is inconvenient to have to be awake at 00:30 and 4:30 to set power reserve percentage using the app. Thankfully we have tech skills, so we wrote a Python app that runs on RPi and sends setting changes via API to Tesla mothership at chosen times. Mimicking the official app in this way was working well until a few weeks ago when we noticed that the settings changes were no longer being applied immediately, and sometimes not at all. Random delays of up to hours happened for changes made from both our Python app and the official app. The settings reported from Tesla mothership (via API or official app) would change but be out of sync with the true gateway status (as viewed via wifi) despite reporting it was connected OK. What a useless mess Tesla.
Just to add, in a similar time frame we have had problems getting it to monitor our solar. This uses a 2nd neuriometer and suddenly was not being seen by the gateway. Reporting this to support has resulted in several firmware updates (on 21.35.0 today), and days with it working and then being dropped again. Support have tried to blame "atmospherics and wifi", but it is in direct line of sight 4m from the gateway and worked perfectly for months through all possible conditions! At the moment it can see it so maybe 21.35.0 was the cure (or are they just throwing firmware at it?).
We are getting heartily sick of the lack of local control of the gateway. Who really cares that we can (maybe) see what our Powerwall is doing from anywhere in the world with an internet connection, when we can't immediately control it locally and maybe not even at all if there are internet connectivity or server problems. The increasingly flaky firmware Tesla release (without explanation), not to mention the UI downgrade of the v4 app (did people really get paid to develop that!!) is also a frustration.
The best approach for us would be to be able to change the power reserve percentage locally on the gateway via API - no need for internet connectivity, no need for Tesla mothership servers, no delay while things maybe communicate or not. Is there a way to do that via API? Has anyone got something like that working directly on the gateway? We have tech skills (see more below) just need pointing in the right direction.
We have tried to use time-based control, but clearly the algorithm is not designed to allow for the varied nature of UK weather (today I may generate 19kWh, and tomorrow only 3kWh) nor how our domestic power consumption varies from day to day. Doesn't matter how much data Tesla have, it repeatedly does not charge overnight on the cheap electricity. What would work perfectly is to simply be able to tell the gateway daily what percentage we want the Powerwall to be charged to using cheap off peak power. As humans we can look at the local weather prediction, consider our activities (things Tesla mothership can not know) and set that percentage before bedtime.
Currently we run in self-powered mode and adjust the power reserve percentage accordingly, but it is inconvenient to have to be awake at 00:30 and 4:30 to set power reserve percentage using the app. Thankfully we have tech skills, so we wrote a Python app that runs on RPi and sends setting changes via API to Tesla mothership at chosen times. Mimicking the official app in this way was working well until a few weeks ago when we noticed that the settings changes were no longer being applied immediately, and sometimes not at all. Random delays of up to hours happened for changes made from both our Python app and the official app. The settings reported from Tesla mothership (via API or official app) would change but be out of sync with the true gateway status (as viewed via wifi) despite reporting it was connected OK. What a useless mess Tesla.
Just to add, in a similar time frame we have had problems getting it to monitor our solar. This uses a 2nd neuriometer and suddenly was not being seen by the gateway. Reporting this to support has resulted in several firmware updates (on 21.35.0 today), and days with it working and then being dropped again. Support have tried to blame "atmospherics and wifi", but it is in direct line of sight 4m from the gateway and worked perfectly for months through all possible conditions! At the moment it can see it so maybe 21.35.0 was the cure (or are they just throwing firmware at it?).
Look through one of the two following threads and see if there is anything there you can use:
Strategies for Powerwalls and Utility Demand Plans
My utility puts new solar customers on a demand plan called the "Solar Price Plan". The Solar Price Plan is the price plan for residential customers who choose to produce some of their own energy using rooftop solar. The plan encourages customers to shift their energy usage away from peak...
teslamotorsclub.com
Powerwall Manager SmartApp for SmartThings
I happen to stumble upon a Powerwall Manager SmartApp for Samsung SmartThings by Darwin's Den. I installed the app to our home SmartThings hub and it seems to work fine. Tesla Powerwall Manager app for the SmartThings Hub I am tinkering with it to see how well it works with my exisitng home...
teslamotorsclub.com
Note that I am not endorsing anything specific, just pointing you at some threads to check. I moved your post into one thread on this discussion, and am providing a couple of links for discussions on this topic that I am aware of that have occured here.
Good luck.
Thank you for the interest @jjrandorin but I'm a bit surprized you have tacked my post onto a zombie thread from over a year ago. Tesla changed the security for API access in March 2021 making any older answers unlikely to work now.
I have had a good search of the forum including the threads you mention already an unable to find any discussion of setting Powerwall parameters directly at the gateway via API. It seems mad to me if this is not possible, but Tesla seem to think mothership must always be in command. Oh well hope someone notices this query.
The only information I am aware of around this topic here on TMC is in this thread, and the two I pointed you to. Specifically, one of the members here setup that powerwall manager for smartthings, to provide a work around that works for them, and some others that use it.
I moved it, because regardless of how old this particular thread is, its the same discussion / complaint.
I started one of those referenced threads and nothing has changed. I have the same complaints that you do. In true Tesla fashion they spend a lot of time and money developing features that would be "nice to have" rather than the practical everyday features that we have been asking for. They would not need A.I. forecasts of possible usage. Just let us tell the device how to behave at any given point in the day.
How can we move past complaining?
I called Tesla's North America support and made a feature request for essentially the same things @xWren has asked for. Nothing has changed. So now I am asking for ideas. What can we do to get Tesla listening to us? Tweet our complaints to Elon Musk? Flood Tesla with calls for feature requests? Give they app 1 star reviews listing our complaints?
I think it is time to act as a group and make our voices heard. What we are asking for should require less resources than their current efforts. If anyone agrees, let's get some ideas going and come up with a plan.
Well thank you for trying @DanAman, disappointing Tesla are not listening or interested but not surprizing. The company ethos does not allow for mere humans to want to control their devices directly. Meanwhile Musk will get to Mars way before anyone comes up with a true AI that can predict both UK weather and my daily power use!!
Thankfully I have the tech skills to be able to write code that automates telling the Tesla mothership what backup reserve I want applied when I want it. Given sufficient the interest I'll get around to putting it on Github for anyone to use. The problem is the random delays for changes at the Tesla cloud to apply to the gateway, Tesla server outages and that this needs internet connectivity. Local control of the device is what is needed, with cloud services for data collection and remote control as a pretty addition.
What I want to know now in 2021 is what will happen is if I start posting API requests to the gateway endpoint https://{TEG_IP}/api/operation rather than the Tesla cloud, to set the "backup_reserve_percent" locally? Will it stick, or will the mothership change it back, lock me out, drop into standby etc., does it need a installer password, and will it work without power cycling the gateway every time (making it impractical).
Sure, I'm in. As a customer I have a very poor view of Tesla products, particularly their software, already given their app a 1 star review for the UI downgrade of v4.
Thankfully I have the tech skills to be able to write code that automates telling the Tesla mothership what backup reserve I want applied when I want it. Given sufficient the interest I'll get around to putting it on Github for anyone to use. The problem is the random delays for changes at the Tesla cloud to apply to the gateway, Tesla server outages and that this needs internet connectivity. Local control of the device is what is needed, with cloud services for data collection and remote control as a pretty addition.
What I want to know now in 2021 is what will happen is if I start posting API requests to the gateway endpoint https://{TEG_IP}/api/operation rather than the Tesla cloud, to set the "backup_reserve_percent" locally? Will it stick, or will the mothership change it back, lock me out, drop into standby etc., does it need a installer password, and will it work without power cycling the gateway every time (making it impractical).
The local API has generally been stable for me. I've had two main glitches since beginning automation last year related to when authentication methods were changed. Even the data I had gone out to the cloud API for, I can now get locally. [knocks on wood]
@xWren I agree that depending on the cloud is problematic. For me it only takes one delay sending config changes to cause a spike in my power bill. Local control is the most logical route. I have not played with the gateway API in a long time. I am sure someone can answer your question. I do remember one issue with local gateway access was that authentication cause the Powerwall to temporarily stop providing power. Not sure if that is still the case.
@zTesla you get data from the gateway, have you also tried setting values locally using the API? Also is that via wifi or have you managed to locate the gateway on your network?
The lack of controllability of the Powerwall is really frustrating me now the continuous cloudy UK weather has arrived and solar generation has dropped way below my domestic use. Primary use is to load shift - charge the Powerwall in the 4 hours of off-peak cheap overnight electricity. To achieve this we use self-powered mode and adjust the power reserve percentage, however that means a charge rate of 1.7Kw, and so we can only get a max of 6.8kWh into our battery (practically a bit less because of losses, server delays in applying commands etc.). We can not rely on time-based control mode because the algorithms Tesla uses is not fit for purpose (in can not accommodate variable weather and variable domestic demand).
Is it really so much to ask that as a consumer we be allowed to just tell the Powerwall to charge at the faster rate when we have cheap electricity supply and want it to do so?
Is it really so much to ask that as a consumer we be allowed to just tell the Powerwall to charge at the faster rate when we have cheap electricity supply and want it to do so?
Until a month ago Powerwall has done its off-peak charging at about 3.45kW so the 4 hours of Octopus Go is just about enough to get it full charged so I'm surprised if you are seeing 1.7kW charge rate unless Tesla has sabotaged something in a recent firmware update. However, I completely agree about the need for more convenient user control as today's gloomy weather has coincided with higher than usual domestic electricity consumption so the battery, which saw no need for off-peak charging after yesterday's sunshine is approaching empty. As I don't have the backup Gateway I can't force it to charge. It will, I expect, charge itself tonight ready for tomorrow's sunnier day but I'm going to be paying for some full-price electricity prior to 00.30.
Yes, on Octopus tariff too @JohnRatsey and what you describe is exactly the weather/use situation that Tesla does not handle. Algorithm (and limited gateway control options) designed by people living in the constant Californian sunshine I guess.
I think 3.45kW charge rate from grid only happens when in time-based control mode and the algorithm decides to charge from grid by some amount at that rate. It also did the same higher rate in the now removed backup only mode. But when in self-powered mode it is only a pathetic 1.7kW. Why?
Even in California, it rains and gets overcast...despite what the song says.
Point definitely taken about the advantages of more complex controls for end users, though I wonder about 1 million customers who simultaneously turn charging on or off.
I think that the bigger picture is the unusual rate structure(s) of the UK compared to other locations is that the complexities might not be top of mind for programers who haven't lived with them.
All the best,
BG
The Uk’s rate structure is not unusual, it’s just a peak and off peak period each day. All you need is the ability to manually input the percentage you want the powerwall to charge to during the off peak so you can ensure it has sufficient charge to get you through the peak.
What is unusual is to find a person that thinks that they can base what tomorrow’s weather will be by looking at what the weather was yesterday! Unfortunately it seems our powerwall programmer was one such person.
I’m just frustrated as I think most owners in the uk are with the software algorithm, I’ve got no complaints about the powerwall itself which is a lovely piece of engineering.
I’m in on the group action if anyone has any ideas.
What is unusual is to find a person that thinks that they can base what tomorrow’s weather will be by looking at what the weather was yesterday! Unfortunately it seems our powerwall programmer was one such person.
I’m just frustrated as I think most owners in the uk are with the software algorithm, I’ve got no complaints about the powerwall itself which is a lovely piece of engineering.
I’m in on the group action if anyone has any ideas.
