You can install our site as a web app on your iOS device by utilizing the Add to Home Screen feature in Safari. Please see this thread for more details on this.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
It's possible to do much better than that if you follow AAKEE's directions. And probably even with typical 80% charge limit it should be better than that as well.thats normal. expect 10% in the first year, 5-10% in the second year and then it slows down a bit.
It's possible to do much better than that if you follow AAKEE's directions. And probably even with typical 80% charge limit it should be better than that as well.
I keep my charge max to 50-52% almost every day (all but ~10 days per year when I go on trips, no supercharging). I have 3.6% degradation after 17500 miles and 18 months. Most degradation happens in warm weather as expected. As it scales with sqrt(time) I suspect little calendar degradation from here.
Originally 358. Extrapolated from 50% its 344-347. Just this minute, checking the app, 181 @ 52% -> 348. That would be 2.79% degradation, but I usually take 344-345 as my range.i doubt you only have 3.6% after 20k miles. whats your rated range?
oh i dont know about the more modern cars. there is technically a hidden buffer. maybe read it out with teslafi.Originally 358. Extrapolated from 50% its 344-347. Just this minute, checking the app, 181 @ 52% -> 348. That would be 2.79% degradation, but I usually take 344-345 as my range.
The point here is that following the science really works over the long term. Peer reviewed independent science, not Tesla, not a blogger, not bro science. Being ~half of a typical 5-6% 1st year is as expected, I'd imagine. Calendar aging rate is half below 55% SOC scientific (52.5% displayed) for NCA.
How many people follow the 50% charge limit from new, and what is their degradation? This all started with AAKEE keeping his 3P at a low SOC near permanently and he had exceptionally low degradation compared to the fleet. The thread down here is probably 2 years old at least now. I was reading on TMC between my order date and pickup date and fortunate to find out about the discussion and decided to take it seriously.
My M3P had 492km range at the last full charge (the day I drove to change car) out of 507km after 2.5 years and 66K km.i doubt you only have 3.6% after 20k miles. whats your rated range?
The 358mi equals 79-79.1kWh.Originally 358. Extrapolated from 50% its 344-347. Just this minute, checking the app, 181 @ 52% -> 348. That would be 2.79% degradation, but I usually take 344-345 as my range.
The 358mi equals 79-79.1kWh.
Each mile is worth 221 Wh.
345 x 221 = 76.25 kWh.
348 x 221 = 76.9. kWh.
On this battery we can discuss what the actuall start value is (or was). Tesla got between 80.6kWh and 82.0.7kWh out of the battery.
(I always used 82.1 as the starting value for calculations on my M3P).
This battery seems more sensitive than the earlier Panasonic 77.8kWh. Less cobalt = less stability? Your ~76.5 is a good value.
Small correction: the smaller older NCA is 77.8kWh (I guess you know, but just not to confuse with the 78.8kWh LG M-50).the vast majority on the NCA 78.8kwh battery drop to 70kwh very quickly and 67-68kwh is completely normal after 30k miles.
Maybe more silicon in the anode which more directly increases capacity. Calendar aging above 50% is mostly graphite anode, right?This battery seems more sensitive than the earlier Panasonic 77.8kWh. Less cobalt = less stability? Your ~76.5 is a good value.
and the vast majority don't keep state of charge at 50% or less most of the time.the vast majority on the NCA 78.8kwh battery drop to 70kwh very quickly and 67-68kwh is completely normal after 30k miles.
As I mostly concentrate on [What happens] and not [Why], the question is close to the border of my knowledge, or slightly beyondMaybe more silicon in the anode which more directly increases capacity. Calendar aging above 50% is mostly graphite anode, right?
I thought it was the other way around. That at high SOC most of the lithium is in the graphite anode and the degradation happens there?As I mostly concentrate on [What happens] and not [Why], the question is close to the border of my knowledge, or slightly beyond
Calendar aging at low SOC is mostly Anodic side reactions. At high SOC (80% and more?) Cathodic dide reactions comes into play. I think its often described as coupled side reactions at high SOC (Anode + Cathode)
Probably yes.I know Cobalt is very good to stabilize the cells for cyclic life. I do not know but guess cobalt also could act stabilizing in the cathode for calendar aging?
With silicon you can insert even more lithium ions but that makes for a less stable structure---more swelling---which degrades the structure with time. The basic problem with silicon anodes has always been rapid degradation.In the anode, the strive for higher energy density probably is in opposite relationship to stability? I guess, to make space for example more lithium you need to reduce something else
I think Panasonic overall has superior tech to LG.I think its clear that the 2170L cell is more sensitive than the old Panna 2170.
I thought it was the other way around. That at high SOC most of the lithium is in the graphite anode and the degradation happens there?
A strong correlation between the capacity fade and the anode potential has been shown. Coulomb tracking has confirmed that anodic side reactions are the main driver for the capacity fade, as they lead to a slippage of the discharging end point which reduces the inventory of cyclable lithium and the utilization of the electrodes. These results confirm that electrolyte reduction and SEI growth at the anode are the predominantaging mechanisms responsible for the irreversible capacity fade of calendar aging.
At high SoCs, additional cathodic side reactions occur, whichcause a reversible self-discharge. Moreover, a crosstalk between bothelectrodes is observed, where cathodic side reactions entail intensified anodic side reactions. Our newly introduced method of coulombtracking has also enabled us to determine the reason for a decreasingcapacity fade observed in one of the calendar aging studies for cellsstored above 80% SoC:
Additional, solely cathodic side reactions atvery high SoC caused a larger slippage of the charging end point whichextended the inventory of cyclable lithium.
I think Panasonic overall has superior tech to LG.
yep, I've "lost" 4.5% after the first year. totally normal.It's 358 if the 18" wheels are selected, it's 334 with the 19s.
I do agree with @Sophias_dad though, 2% is nothing and you'll never miss it. Watch it over time but it's very common in the first year to get 6% degradation or so. The curve will settle out.
This report on NCA (often cited by me has it like this:
A strong correlation between the capacity fade and the anode potential has been shown. Coulomb tracking has confirmed that anodic side reactions are the main driver for the capacity fade, as they lead to a slippage of the discharging end point which reduces the inventory of cyclable lithium and the utilization of the electrodes. These results confirm that electrolyte reduction and SEI growth at the anode are the predominantaging mechanisms responsible for the irreversible capacity fade of calendar aging.
You might be right, I have not studied it enough.That's also what I thought too, but this means the problem is at the anode (graphite) with lithium being deposited on the graphite permanently and removed from circulation. Since more permanent capacity loss happens at high SoC, this means that the degradation is happening at the graphite when it is more strongly charged.]
The website and his car are 2 different cars. The old one like his has the panasonic battery, with a larger capacity than the new one with the LG battery, therefore it has a 25 mile difference.2% is noise.
I'd like to just point out here that if your old ICE car had its fuel economy change by 2%, or probably even 5%, you wouldn't know/notice/care. You should just sit back, relax, and enjoy your new car.
And where are you getting your 358 from? a new AWD from Tesla is estimated at 334mi, per the website right now.