The Detroit Bureau Model S article

[dsm363]

Yeah. He's fixated on this 'pad' thing. He also doesn't seem to understand that the 300 mile pack is ideal miles and that the number 300 wH/mile is not a fixed/absolute number.
Multiple people have pointed this out to him but he refuses to believe it I guess.

What is the wH/mile average one should use with these kind of calculations? He's set on 300 wH/mile being the absolute minimum.

 

[Chris H.]

Hi Tom,

speaking of that blog by Paul Eisenstein on the Detroit Bureau, I have 5 comments "awaiting moderation" there. The oldest one has been waiting for more than 28hrs. There are no rants or inappropriate language. There's nothing in them that could possibly have violated any commenting policy, just reasoned arguments and polite corrections of his errors. If he doesn't post them in the next 24 hrs, I'll just have to post them here.

 

[Chris H.]

I also have about 5 or 6 comments "awaiting moderation" on that Detroit Bureau blog on charging the 300 mile pack on the Model S. The oldest one has been waiting since yesterday afternoon (almost 30 hrs now). There is no inappropriate content, just reasoned argument and polite pointing out of errors/misconceptions. If he doesn't allow them through moderation in the next 24 hrs, I'll post them here.

 

[dsm363]

Looks like the comments (yours included Chris H.) are up now.

 

[Chris H.]

Thanks DSM, it looks like they were getting hung up in moderation even though I registered on the site before posting my first comment. At least he offered an explanation (sort of...).

 

[Eberhard]

i want the 300 mile option because, first: after 100.000 miles and 80% capacity is till have the range of the 230 mile pack. second: on my daily commute, when the full range is not needed i can charge within a more narrow band causing even less stress to the battery. Maybe Tesla can provide a further charging option, being optimized for the longlife of the battery

 

[dpeilow]

He's now admitted that he got numbers from Tesla that back up our collective positions, but he's now trying to shift attention elsewhere.

Also it turns out that he's a Volt trialist. The penny drops.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

been like this all morning...

Service Temporarily Unavailable

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
Apache/1.3.42 Server at thedetroitbureau.com Port 80

 

[dpeilow]

I've got two more waiting to go live there, which are:

dpeilow says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
at

So what you are saying is that Tesla has confirmed the numbers that I and several others have been trying to tell you for the past few days are correct. You’ve now tried to shift attention away to other issues but let’s concentrate on the original story.

You made comments such as:

“For the record, Rollinson and other Tesla officials are not commenting, but sources confirm TheDetroitBureau.com’s math. And there are even more problematic numbers.”

and:

“The larger Model S, with its huge 300-mile battery, would, at best require about 14 hours to get back on the road – at best.”

…which are patently not true.

You’ve tried to shift attention onto other issues such as weight. Firstly, the 300 mile Model S has the same number of battery cells as the 230 mile version – it’s a different chemistry – and thus the weight difference over 8000 cells is at most a few kilos. Secondly, weight has a far smaller effect on range than aerodynamics at highway speeds.

Even your comments about DC fast charge are not accurate, for example I know there is a public DC charger at Vacaville, CA. Furthermore, as the coming J1772 DC standard supports up to 120kW charging, if Tesla decided to use this then the car could charge in under an hour at such a station.

The premise of the story has been thoroughly discredited. The honest thing to do would be to rewrite it.


dpeilow says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
at

Also, it’s not anyone’s guess how quickly fast chargers will be added. The US is about to install 310 of them here: http://www.greencarcongress.com/201...ademo-quick-charging-system-for-evs.html#more

BP are going to install a further 45: http://www.greencarcongress.com/201...cotality-blink-dc-fast-charging-stations.html

Nissan is also installing them at dealers.

These are just the stories I can find with a 30 second search…

 

[Eberhard]

if model s needs 300Wh/mile and i have to go 400 miles for my destination. I have do recharge after 300 miles. If i find a 50A socket, i only have to charge 30kWh for the 100miles left and I can do this within 3hours. Nobody can urge me to charge to full, which may take 10 hours or more.

 

[dsm363]

Here's the link to the article people have been talking about in the Model S specs thread.
I though that since it was starting to take up so much room in the 'Model S Specs' thread, maybe the comments could be moved here?

Anyway, I really don't understand the intent of the article. His most recent comment "My words have even been turned upside-down, my being accused of calling 14-hour charging a best-case scenario.
Everyone keeps trying to convince me (and, apparently, themselves) of what they think I am writing and what reality is. And when folks like yourself, deliver comments to support my point, they ignore the irony."

I just posted but it's awaiting moderation:

No one is asking you to report just the best case scenario, just a more balanced report. No one is trying to turn your words upside down: I’ll quote your article “The larger Model S, with its huge 300-mile battery, would, at best require about 14 hours to get back on the road – at best.”
When I read that, and the ‘at best’ part comes right after you’re talking about level II chargers, it’s pretty clear you mean 14 hours is the best you can do or at least that’s what everyone else posting here interpreted. You even write ‘at best’ twice in the same sentence to drive home the point. A level II charger can go up to 75A so that’s not a totally accurate statement as people have pointed out multiple times.

 

[Todd Burch]

Let me guess...the Detroit press is not partial to EVs? What a surprise.

(Note sarcasm).

 

[dsm363]

Let me guess...the Detroit press is not partial to EVs? What a surprise.

(Note sarcasm).

You got it. He seems like he is genuinely trying to understand the situation but falls into the trap a lot of the press does that it has to be the perfect car for all people and that if you can't drive 600 miles in a day with minimal fuss, then the car is 'effectively unusable'. I think it's just a matter or being exposed to more information and people's stories. I had been reading this forum and following Tesla for over 4 years before I bought my Roadster so I basically knew what to expect. Getting the 50A circuit installed was not a problem. Charging the car has not been a problem. Driving the speed limit......ahhhhh, also not a problem.

 

[TEG]

Let me guess...the Detroit press is not partial to EVs? What a surprise.
(Note sarcasm).

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/201...ric-vehicle-owners-from-eaton-and-murphy-oil/

...The Achilles’ heal (SIC) of electric vehicles is range all, except fanatics admit...

...given the fact that an EV leaves the driveway fully charged with about the same range as a gasoline-powered vehicle has when the gauge reads empty and the low fuel warning light is on....

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/08/battery-life-charging-worry-potential-ev-buyers/

...Even those who follow EV developments and news reports remain concerned about batteries – the Achilles heel of what remain very expensive vehicles...

...etc...

 

[qwk]

You guys are wasting your time. This guy KNOWS he is wrong but will never admit it.

His arguments just do not hold water. Unless you live in a single wide from the 60's, it will easily support the HPC. Every house/apartment I have been to(I check because of curiosity) has at least a 200 amp service.

It's fairly safe to assume that somebody who can afford a 60+k car, will not live in a $hithole.

 

[Doug_G]

His arguments just do not hold water. Unless you live in a single wide from the 60's, it will easily support the HPC. Every house/apartment I have been to(I check because of curiosity) has at least a 200 amp service.

I was astonished to discover that my six year old house had 100 amp service. Fortunately it wasn't a big deal to have the service upgraded.

 

[Todd Burch]

The coolest part is that next year, I'm going to be writing an enormous check to a small Silicon Valley start-up car company...it won't end up in Detroit. So I'll let my money speak for itself.

Ain't Capitalism grand?

 

[Eberhard]

the point is: is 160 miles option better then 300 miles option if you can only charge with low amps. Nooo as bigger as better. Less stress to the batterie by only using 40% instead of 80% capacity. If you need to go for 100 miles, you has to add the same amount of juice independent of the size of the capacity. Maybe you have to add even less at the bigger size battery, because there was more juice left before. Therefore you can even save time for charging because you are able to move the charging time when it is more comfortable.

 

[qwk]

I was astonished to discover that my six year old house had 100 amp service. Fortunately it wasn't a big deal to have the service upgraded.

Very interesting.

It seems that other countries have much lower amp breaker boxes.

 

[dsm363]

Yeah, guess the article just got me frustrated. I'll just let it go. Just wanted to vent one more time but not tie up the Model S spec thread. Thanks.