The End of Public HPCs

[tomsax]

I figured that site owners hosting Tesla HPCs would want to convert them to standard J1772 charging stations eventually, but I was stunned to hear it's happening already.

The Tesla HPCs at Davis, Dixon, Fairfield, San Ramone, Vacaville, and Vallejo have already been converted to J1772 plugs.

From what I hear, Tesla has an adapter ready to go. I saw it demoed on March 15th at the Bellevue Square charging station grand opening in Bellevue, WA. Even though they showed it, and allowed the press to film it in action, they refused to tell us anything about it.

Maybe Tesla Motors needs to hear from Roadster owners to know we want to know about their solution now and would like their support on developing other possible solutions such as conversion to J1772.

 

[doug]

Amazing that's happening so quickly. That whole corridor on the way to Sacramento... I was just in Davis this past weekend.
Who is doing the conversions? Are there already more Leafs and Volts in that region than there are Roadsters? Also, IIRC, some (most?) of those spots were full 70 Amps. Did they get a Yazaki J1772 connector rated for that Amperage?

 

[bonnie]

The Tesla HPCs at Davis, Dixon, Fairfield, San Ramone, Vacaville, and Vallejo have already been converted to J1772 plugs.

Already? I used the Dixon HPC a couple of weeks ago. When did this all happen?

 

[bonnie]

I just received an update from Tesla ...

"Unfortunately there is still no official word, but it really could be any day now. There are a few logistical issues we are still working out before we will be comfortable enough to officially offer the adapter. We are aware of the swap outs and are taking it into consideration."

I'm not likely to take a longer road trip without an adapter, if it's likely that an HPC I was counting on might have been quietly converted to a J1772. The SF/Sacramento swap out is a concern, since that's on my home stretch. I've stopped a couple of times in the past month to add some charge to the battery just to be on the safe side.

 

[doug]

If you use EVChargerMaps and click on the TSL locations in that area (along I-80 between SF and Sacramento) there is an update from yesterday on each that reads, "erdunlap reports: Tesla charger has been updated to J177".

 

[tomsax]

Who is doing the conversions?

I understand that all of the sites that were funded by CARB are required to be upgraded to J1772. I'll bet other sites are interested in supporting all production electric vehicles, not just a few "rich" Roadster owners.

Are there already more Leafs and Volts in that region than there are Roadsters?

I believe there are 3,000 LEAFs in the US now, maybe not all delivered. They either already do or will soon outnumber Roadsters and Nissan was just entering full production when the earthquake hit. I believe Volts have outnumbered Roadsters in the US for a while now, but I don't follow the Volt as closely as the LEAF.

Also, IIRC, some (most?) of those spots were full 70 Amps. Did they get a Yazaki J1772 connector rated for that Amperage?

I don't know the particulars for these sites, but the ITT Canon plug supports 75A and has been available for several months now.

 

[TEG]

Amazing that's happening so quickly. That whole corridor on the way to Sacramento... I was just in Davis this past weekend.
Who is doing the conversions?...

Forum user FolsomEV (T.D.) who runs EVChargerNews + EVChargerMaps and is "charging infrastructure manager with the Electric Auto Assn" has been very involved with public charging in that area. He has a Volt and Rav4EV, so I am not surprised that the Fairfield/Vacaville area is the first to start getting J1772 "upgrades".

Related:

• View Profile: folsomev - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum
• Recargo Profile - folsomev
• View Profile: folsomev - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum

• California Approves $1.9 Million Upgrade To Electric Car Chargers

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blocks/comments/index/id/1049821/type/blog

...

• By Dave Packard #11, Posted: 10/7/2010
  ...
  Here are the facts on the California Energy Commission Grant to upgrade infrastructure.
  The Energy Commission awarded the Grant to ClipperCreek, Inc.
  The Grant is to upgrade existing infrastructure with the New SAE-J1772 standard.
  Where operational and used. The small paddle inductive units will be maintained to support existing EV drivers.
  The new SAE-J1772 inlets and connectors will be made available to current EV drivers to upgrade their vehicles.
  EV Connect and Tom Dowling are sub-contractors on the project.
  If you need any additional information please call me at my office 530-887-1674.

EV Connect | Home

 

[strider]

So does this mean they added an adapter to the HPC's tesla plug to support J1772? If so, could you just remove the adapter and plug it into your Roadster? Or did they cut/remove the Tesla plug and replace it w/ a J1772 one?

 

[TEG]

I am fairly sure the latter. A replacement not an adapter.

 

[Jaff]

I think there are currently between 1500-1600 Roadsters on the road world-wide...around 40 in Canada and more in Germany I think...I'd guess that 100-200 of these Roadsters are outside the U.S.A. so the Leaf is already out in front of us numbers-wise...

I believe there are 3,000 LEAFs in the US now, maybe not all delivered. They either already do or will soon outnumber Roadsters and Nissan was just entering full production when the earthquake hit. I believe Volts have outnumbered Roadsters in the US for a while now, but I don't follow the Volt as closely as the LEAF.

 

[doug]

Well regardless, the writing has been on the wall for the Tesla connector for a while now. They should abandon it and fully adopt J1772 in the US and Japan.

For the Model S, I hope they design the connector on that car side to be somewhat modular so that they can install Yazaki J1772 or Mennenkes as region dictates.

 

[dpeilow]

Agreed going to a standard on the car is the way to go, but who is going to take a LEAF on such a road trip with its 3.3 kW trickle charger? 1) Have they filled in the gaps in the corridor? 2) Can you imagine now showing up only to find a LEAF there, "I'll only be 9 hours, ok?". Seems premature.

IMHO they should have been kept Tesla and the money should have been spent to add CHAdeMO at the sites for the LEAF (at least until >7 kW J1772 cars are on the scene). Then a Seattle-San Diego race could have been organised

 

[stopcrazypp]

Wow, didn't realize it would happen this fast. Hopefully it still has 70 amp support. The ideal situation is they just added J1772 support but didn't remove the Tesla cable, but that is probably unlikely.

 

[doug]

Agreed going to a standard on the car is the way to go, but who is going to take a LEAF on such a road trip with its 3.3 kW trickle charger? 1) Have they filled in the gaps in the corridor? 2) Can you imagine now showing up only to find a LEAF there, "I'll only be 9 hours, ok?".

Well the distance from San Francisco to Sacramento is only about 75 miles, but I see your point. The change over does seem a bit premature, but it is inevitable and Tesla is overdue with a J1772 charging solution.

 

[bonnie]

Well the distance from San Francisco to Sacramento is only about 75 miles, but I see your point. The change over does seem a bit premature, but it is inevitable and Tesla is overdue with a J1772 charging solution.

True - but for those of us who live on the other side of Sacramento, the commute to San Francisco is about 110 miles. And the commute (the one I make on a regular basis) to San Jose is 145 miles. I can typically pick up *just enough* miles while in town, but it cuts it close. So having the chargers available along the corridor is essential.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Well the distance from San Francisco to Sacramento is only about 75 miles, but I see your point. The change over does seem a bit premature, but it is inevitable and Tesla is overdue with a J1772 charging solution.

The actual road distance you have to travel though is still about 90-110 miles though.

Another thing I wanted to add was the difference between 10mph/20mph (15amp 3.3kW / 30 amp 6.6kW) and 45mph (70amp 16.8kW) charging is still pretty huge regardless (I'm using mph estimates according to EPA instead). With a HPC (or a high power J1772) you can fill up for half of the trip in about an hour, while even with the faster 6.6kW J1772 it'll take 2-3 hours. If I was on this trip I would be okay stopping for an hour, but probably not 2-3 hours (when the trip itself is that long).

 

[doug]

Right, the point dpeilow and I were making is that the Leaf has neither the range nor the charging speed to make those charging locations all that useful. Where as for the Roadster they provide that little bit of safety buffer for the trip from Sacramento to SF or San Jose in a relatively short amount of charging time. So the switch over to J1772 seems a bit premature given the charging stations provide a greater utility to Roadsters (that have yet to get a J1772 charging solution from Tesla).

 

[dpeilow]

Yep. J1772 is never going to be any more useful than "shopping mall parking lot" charging for something like the LEAF, as long as Nissan persist with those lower rate on-board chargers.

 

[TEG]

Amazing that's happening so quickly. That whole corridor on the way to Sacramento... I was just in Davis this past weekend.

Were you charging (or trying to charge) an EV on that trip?

 

[AndrewBissell]

@Jaff. There are 500 or more Roadsters in Europe. Add ones in Asia, Canada, Australia - another 100? So Roadsters in the US must be close to but probably sub 1000.