The Perfect Tesla Raffle

[HankLloydRight]

If anyone wants to try to do something with a referral in that few-hour gap between the announcement of the raffle winner and the ending of the referral program, that's their business. They'll have to be prepared to configure and execute their order with their own money for the deposit, as CXC won't actually dispense funds until the following week.

I think if someone knows what they want, and is prepared to make an order that night, that they would certainly qualify for the referral credit. It's certainly worth $1k to assume whatever risk or hassle it might create (which is essentially zero, since all other financial transactions would occur in 2016).

If I win, I'd certainly be ready to place the order right away. I assume that CXC will pay Tesla Motors $104,200 directly for the car (including doc fee).

Right now, I can configure a 90D with pretty much every option except for 21" wheels and rear facing seats for $106,700 (incl doc fee). Less the $1000 referral credit, and less the CXC prize credit, I'd be left having to pay $1,500 cash. Since I'd have to make a $2,500 cash deposit upon ordering, by the time it's all said and done, I'd have $1000 "on account" with Tesla Motors.

Seems like a good deal to me. Not to mention, ALSO taking the $7500 tax credit in April, 2017.

 

[Pollux]

I've pinged our legislative director re Michael Moore. Stay tuned.

Hi Alan,

My Senator is Michael Moore, but he hasn't responded to my email. Is he friend or foe or on the fence? I could call him tomorrow, if persistence would be useful. The bill is in committee now?

I found this link on carbon pricing: Carbon Fee and Dividend - Citizens Climate Lobby


I'm still learning it, but if I understand the basics, a fee is charged to the original sellers of carbon fuels, and increases every year to a set point. That money is distributed to everybody, equally, and as the fees rise, so do the rebates. So, your incentive is to keep more of the rebate by using less carbon fuels.

Seems those of us with solar and EVs and Mass Saved houses will be ahead of the curve. My wife is lobbying hard for a geothermal heat pump system to get the house off of oil, so now I have to go research that. If anybody has a good link to share, please do.

- - - Updated - - -

We're paying Tesla $103K car, $1200 doc & delivery, $750 HPWC, total $104,950. We're paying Winner $5K (state taxes) & $500 (electrician). Total $110,450. You could use all of that for the car (but then obviously you don't have any dollars lying around for use towards HPWC if you want one, electrician if you want one, state vehicle taxes if you have them). And then there's the US tax payment ($36,730).

AND YES, ABSOLUTELY, you will be First Owner on the car hence eligible for $7500 federal tax credit and any applicable state tax credits or rebates.

I'm starting to see these numbers in my sleep.

And as for your example... you've nailed a really good config, IMHO, which is what I would hope for for a Winner. IIRC, we originally spec'd an 85D with 19" all seasons and without rear facing seats. We wanted to suggest a really capable EV with great range, great value for the money. I'd argue that the 90D doesn't have that much value over an 85D on a range-versus-cost basis.

That said, what I'd configure for myself is different. Basically, check every box on the web form. P90DL, 21" summers, separate winters on 19" rims, blah blah blah. I didn't used to be that guy. I was the Audi A4 guy, not the S4 guy. The slightly-kicked-up options guy. Everyone knows you never get your money back out of the car for all those pricey options.

Boy has Tesla changed my tune... (says the '13 P85+ fully-optioned owner).

I think if someone knows what they want, and is prepared to make an order that night, that they would certainly qualify for the referral credit. It's certainly worth $1k to assume whatever risk or hassle it might create (which is essentially zero, since all other financial transactions would occur in 2016).

If I win, I'd certainly be ready to place the order right away. I assume that CXC will pay Tesla Motors $104,200 directly for the car (including doc fee).

Right now, I can configure a 90D with pretty much every option except for 21" wheels and rear facing seats for $106,700 (incl doc fee). Less the $1000 referral credit, and less the CXC prize credit, I'd be left having to pay $1,500 cash. Since I'd have to make a $2,500 cash deposit upon ordering, by the time it's all said and done, I'd have $1000 "on account" with Tesla Motors.

Seems like a good deal to me. Not to mention, ALSO taking the $7500 tax credit in April, 2017.

 

[trils0n]

@Pollux -- Sorry, didn't mean to cause any extra work for you re: lawyer and referral credit. I just imagined the winner could do the referral credit on their own if it was possible in the hours between being notified of winning and the end of the referral program, if they were ready and so desired. Didn't occur to me that you might take the initiative and try to help with that! Appreciate that you are so thorough and took the time to investigate -- raffle is in good hands.

 

[HankLloydRight]

That said, what I'd configure for myself is different. Basically, check every box on the web form. P90DL, 21" summers, separate winters on 19" rims, blah blah blah. I didn't used to be that guy. I was the Audi A4 guy, not the S4 guy. The slightly-kicked-up options guy. Everyone knows you never get your money back out of the car for all those pricey options.

Boy has Tesla changed my tune... (says the '13 P85+ fully-optioned owner).

Even though I'm also a lucky P85+ owner, and if I won the raffle, I still couldn't justify an additional $30k for the P90DL. I'd rather put that money towards a + upgrade to a 90D if Tesla would still do it.

 

[Pollux]

No need for sorry!! Very happy to get positive suggestions about possible improvements. I got excited because I thought it could be a cool thing to toss in. Also, I like making the raffle attorney's head explode; he's a good sport and has given me some creative solutions. But too hairy for CXC to officially engage. Leaving it up to the Winner is the best course.

@Pollux -- Sorry, didn't mean to cause any extra work for you re: lawyer and referral credit. I just imagined the winner could do the referral credit on their own if it was possible in the hours between being notified of winning and the end of the referral program, if they were ready and so desired. Didn't occur to me that you might take the initiative and try to help with that! Appreciate that you are so thorough and took the time to investigate -- raffle is in good hands.

 

[EdA]

@Pollux - I meant a referral program for the raffle, refer someone and get a Hot Wheels Model S or something

 

[brianman]

@Pollux - I meant a referral program for the raffle, refer someone and get a Hot Wheels Model S or something

Those are harder to find at retail prices than Model S itself.

 

[madsina]

Just ordered 1 ticket... Hopefully this will be the golden one, as I would never be able to afford a S otherwise.

Cheers!

 

[Pollux]

Ahhhh.

@Pollux - I meant a referral program for the raffle, refer someone and get a Hot Wheels Model S or something

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Thank you! I see your ticket, and have marked it as "the golden one". Seriously... thanks for your support!

Just ordered 1 ticket... Hopefully this will be the golden one, as I would never be able to afford a S otherwise.

Cheers!

 

[spentan]

@Pollux,

I sent the email confirming I received the tix but didn't get anything back. Should I have got a reply?

Just wanna make sure no hiccups when my ticket is drawn [emoji12]

 

[Pollux]

Hi, @spentan,

The system is automated. However, a certain raffle dude, who just can't leave well enough alone, also occasionally responds, almost at random. If I happen to notice something in the email that someone sends to the raffle address, or if something catches my eyes in the database, or if I notice someone on the forum who has posted. There is no way for me to respond to each individual order, as there are way too many orders.

That said, I just searched the database for your TMC handle (@spentan) but wasn't surprised that nothing came back. If you want to PM me with any of the following -- your full name, your email address, your order number -- I'll be happy to verify that you are properly in the database. Given that you imply that you received the ticket(s), I strongly suspect that you're in good shape. But I'm happy to check!

Alan

@Pollux,

I sent the email confirming I received the tix but didn't get anything back. Should I have got a reply?

Just wanna make sure no hiccups when my ticket is drawn [emoji12]

 

[tga]

Well, since the Illinois Solar Energy Association saw fit to draw the wrong ticket last night, I decided to double my odds and buy another CXC ticket. :biggrin:

Another tax/legal question. I think I read that the awarding of the prize for the winner's tax purposes is in 2015? So the filing of the tax paperwork for the raffle winnings applies to 2015, but since the purchase won't be able to be started until 2016 I assume the federal tax rebate of $7500 provided you are eligible would apply to 2016? How can you "award" the prize in 2015 when the drawing is a couple hours before midnight after business hours? Or did it read it incorrectly and everything for tax purposes will take place in 2016?

Alan -

kf93's post got me thinking. Would it be better to delay the drawing until 12:01, thereby moving the tax liability into 2016? Pushing out tax liability is always a good thing, right? Regardless, the winner can't claim the tax credit on their 2015 taxes, since the car won't be put into service until 2016. If the clock for using a referral credit is PST (as mentioned upthread), the winner still has 3 hours to place an order and use a referral.

Admittedly, this is sort of a self-serving question. I'll be a NH resident for tax year 2016, so bumping the tax payment to next year would save me a pile o' cash. But I'm not sure I see a downside for others (beyond 1 more hour of anticipation).

 

[mikes_fsd]

Alan -

kf93's post got me thinking. Would it be better to delay the drawing until 12:01, thereby moving the tax liability into 2016? Pushing out tax liability is always a good thing, right? Regardless, the winner can't claim the tax credit on their 2015 taxes, since the car won't be put into service until 2016. If the clock for using a referral credit is PST (as mentioned upthread), the winner still has 3 hours to place an order and use a referral.

Admittedly, this is sort of a self-serving question. I'll be a NH resident for tax year 2016, so bumping the tax payment to next year would save me a pile o' cash. But I'm not sure I see a downside for others (beyond 1 more hour of anticipation).

I agree with the above

 

[kf93]

I think the question is whether the prize is awarded at the drawing or when the payment is made to Tesla. For tax purposes for the $7500 credit, I think it's pretty clear that is tied to delivery so it would be 2016 (unless you want a 70 X).
For the "prize tax" to the IRS, my assumption was that since the awarding institution was making the tax payment as of January that it meant the prize was considered to be awarded in 2015, but that might not be the case. Since I as the prospective winner aren't making the tax payment to the IRS (Thanks for making this painless) I probably don't really care in the end as long as it gets made.

PS: I'm in California so I'll still be up and expecting the phone call. thanks.

 

[Pollux]

I am in love with this logic!

Well, since the Illinois Solar Energy Association saw fit to draw the wrong ticket last night, I decided to double my odds and buy another CXC ticket. :biggrin:



Alan -

kf93's post got me thinking. Would it be better to delay the drawing until 12:01, thereby moving the tax liability into 2016? Pushing out tax liability is always a good thing, right? Regardless, the winner can't claim the tax credit on their 2015 taxes, since the car won't be put into service until 2016. If the clock for using a referral credit is PST (as mentioned upthread), the winner still has 3 hours to place an order and use a referral.

Admittedly, this is sort of a self-serving question. I'll be a NH resident for tax year 2016, so bumping the tax payment to next year would save me a pile o' cash. But I'm not sure I see a downside for others (beyond 1 more hour of anticipation).

 

[stoebs]

But for those of us in a different time zone (I'm in Hawaii, which is 5 hours behind East coast time), what are the tax implications of a prize being awarded across time zones, which in this case, would span two tax years?

I think my head just exploded!

Better to keep it in 2015 for all, methinks.

 

[geoffreak]

My understanding is that with the taxes, it don't matter about when you are recognized as the winner but rather when you are paid. I think Pollux mentioned that it would take a few days to provide the money so that would put the tax liability squarely into 2016.

 

[Tedkidd]

Can you pull it a minute after the ball drops, jic?


VVVVVVVVV "Doh!" (facepalm)

 

[palmer_md]

Can you pull it a minute after the ball drops, jic?

Which time zone? We have 6 in the US and as noted by stoebs a few posts earlier by that logic we'd have to wait until the last time zone. Geoffreak summed it up best saying it does not matter who they pick on December 31 it only matters when they award the prize in January to the winner.

 

[HankLloydRight]

My understanding is that with the taxes, it don't matter about when you are recognized as the winner but rather when you are paid. I think Pollux mentioned that it would take a few days to provide the money so that would put the tax liability squarely into 2016.

This.

Nobody has to worry about 2015 tax consequences. You're not getting paid until 2016 (and neither is Tesla). CXC will probably send out 1099s (or whatever is used for raffles/contests) in 2016, so that's when you'll be liable for the income.

If someone pays me in 2016 for work done in 2015, that's 2016 income (on a cash basis, not accrual). It really doesn't matter that the "prize winner" was selected in 2015.