Yes, the Leaf was not a battery friendly car, however, the only reason the Volt is still charging to 100% for you is likely because Chevy put in about a 50% battery buffer. When it's new it doesn't utilize close to the true capacity of the battery.
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The Volt is dead, long live the Volt!
- Thread starter StellarRat
- Start date
cruiserlarry
Gadgetologist
The Volt actually has a 20% battery buffer through 2012 (35 mi on battery) which was reduced in 2013 to give it a slight increase in range (38 mi on battery)
RedModel3
Member
The Volt had tons of style compared to other Chevys. Also, it was fast when it was on electric. I happily drove mine for two years. The problems I saw with it were, 1.) When I bought it the dealership didn't even know that the charger wasn't in the trunk. They really just wanted to get rid of it and really didn't know anything about it. 2.) It wasn't all electric and it was time to get my Tesla.
I do have sympathy for the workers who will be losing their jobs. Most of them just want to put food on their table and they have been the victims of the short-sighted GM management. I'm hoping that Tesla can buy at least one of the factories and put these people to work, if they can work out a deal with the UAW. I am a union member, but I also see the downsides to a union.
It's something like this:
2011: 16kWh, 10kWh usable
2013: 16.5kWh, 10.3kWh usable
2015 (late 2014): 17.1kWh, 10.9kWh usable (GM chose not to publicize this increase)
2016: 18.3kWh, 14kWh usable. Gen 2
I don't know what the unusable proportions are top and bottom.
Kichwas
Member
They’re voting choices hurt us all, but mostly them. They had every reason to know better. They voted against their own futures out of racist spite and fear of change...
We even fought to give them unions and political leaders that would hold their bosses to task, and still they abandoned that to rewage their race wars...
So sympathy is the last thing I have for them. How many times do we need to let people who make such choices keep messing things up for themselves and everyone else before we just let them pay the price for their own choices?
We are talking company level decisions here that brought GM to these closures right? And if so, are you saying the plant's floor employees have company voting rights as to who runs the company they work at and control or influence over the policies and plans the company pursues? My dad, a multi-decade employee at a GM plant and not a CEO there but a plant worker, didn't have any voting stock in the company and had absolutely no input into what cars GM decided they were going to produce. He did have a decent paying job and was very skilled in what he did. In fact he retired a few times but they called him back and asked him to return which I think he did twice. After that he just wanted to be retired and enjoy retirement. He did, until he died a few years ago, continue to support the employees where he worked by buying GM cars, unlike his daughter who bought Japanese vehicles for better mileage and who more recently joined the Tesla family because it was a great car and subsequently loved the fact that it was zero emissions. His last vehicle BTW was a 2012 Buick LaCrosse with eAssist and regenerative braking.
From both a practical/logistical perspective and a political one, this could be a shrewd move by Tesla if the numbers and terms are good.
If I was Tesla, the terms would include "No UAW involvement at all. Direct agreement with the workers."
ℬête Noire
Active Member
The UAW has two large issues:
1) If they treat Tesla operations like it is another auto manufacturers, which is quite possible because that's what they know, there would be a huge culture clash. And clashing with Musk isn't a good, productive place to be because he's hardly the easiest going guy around.
I don't know if UAW is willing to learn and grow? On Tesla's side they'd do well to insulate the whole thing from Musk himself with someone Musk trusts.2) A much bigger issue is UAW's conflict of interest. They have far more members at other manufacturers, and Tesla represents an existential threat to those manufactures and therefore to the jobs of those UAW's members. Further, Tesla is aiming to reduce assembly work on the vehicle by about 10% (I think that's right?). Now that doesn't mean that UAW will act in bad faith but that doesn't fix a conflict of interest. Just the appearance of a conflict of interest is bad enough, it poisons the situation.
It shouldn't have anything to do with Musk and his preferences. It should be about what's good for Tesla and, secondarily, what's good for ex-employees of GM.The UAW has two large issues:
1) If they treat Tesla operations like it is another auto manufacturers, which is quite possible because that's what they know, there would be a huge culture clash. And clashing with Musk isn't a good, productive place to be because he's hardly the easiest going guy around.
2) A much bigger issue is UAW's conflict of interest. They have far more members at other manufacturers, and Tesla represents an existential threat to those manufactures and therefore to the jobs of those UAW's members. Further, Tesla is aiming to reduce assembly work on the vehicle by about 10% (I think that's right?). Now that doesn't mean that UAW will act in bad faith but that doesn't fix a conflict of interest. Just the appearance of a conflict of interest is bad enough, it poisons the situation.
RedModel3
Member
I'm still driving my 2012 Ampera. It has 155.000+km, 6+ years old, Lifetime consumption is at 0.8l/100km and I'm driving her until her wheels fall off:
ℬête Noire
Active Member
He's still CEO, largest shareholder at about 20%, has large sway with the board, and just headed up a 'win' on a 'bet the company' push. Time can erode some of that but he's still running the day-to-day and it's likely suicide to try some sort of boardroom coupe at this point. Not even clear who'd do it. It's extremely unlikely that Denholm would be named to Chair w/out being on good terms with Musk.
I find this a very puzzling statement. Perhaps you misunderstood? I just think Musk's personality and skill set wouldn't be the best fit for direct communication with the UAW, nor is UAW likely to be able to come all the way to fit into Tesla's overall culture.
Like it or not that culture, while it is Musk's "preference" and a reflection of himself, is at the heart of Tesla's success and how it operates.
Best solution for the Canada plant should Tesla buy it would be to completely jettison any union involvement. Give new Tesla employees at the plant stock options as incentive to work the 60 hour weeks as required. Nothing better incentivises productivity than seeing your paycheck rise as the company and you both prosper. Anyone wanting to simply sleep walk through the week, take sick time off when not sick, and whose primary concern is to do as little work as possible can find employment elsewhere.
RT
RT
ℬête Noire
Active Member
That's not really longterm sustainable for assembly floor. Ultimately it's inefficient.
GM went 0 for 1 with the EV-1. We all know the story, but it was the first pure EV.
GM is now 0 for 2 with the cancellation of the Volt. The rapid rise of the pure EV sealed the Volt's fate, plus they were losing money on every car produced. With the tax credit going away this would only get worse.
The 0 for 3 coming soon is the demise of the Bolt. The Tesla Killer that actually beat the Model 3 to market was going to prove once and for all the the legacy automakers could easily "ramp up" EV production on a moments notice and crush the upstart Tesla. The Model 3 is outselling the Bolt 14-1 despite costing $10,000+ more. The 0 for 3 will finally happen when GM cancels the Bolt as Tesla drops the entry level Model 3 price where any sane person wouldn't even consider the Bolt.
So now the "story line" is that the 0 for 3 GM management who lost the "are you smarter than a 5th grader" contest is going to pour some ungodly billions of $$$ into their autonomous vehicle and EV programs.
Anyone following TMC for the last several years predicted the 0 for 3 long ago, despite the GM fanboys and Wall Street analysts incessant reporting of the latest Tesla killers, blah, blah, blah.
The last Chapter 11 episode for GM was in June 2009. Another opportunity of a lifetime is awaiting those who understand what is coming and figure out the timing for when the rest of the herd will figure it out.
RT
GM is now 0 for 2 with the cancellation of the Volt. The rapid rise of the pure EV sealed the Volt's fate, plus they were losing money on every car produced. With the tax credit going away this would only get worse.
The 0 for 3 coming soon is the demise of the Bolt. The Tesla Killer that actually beat the Model 3 to market was going to prove once and for all the the legacy automakers could easily "ramp up" EV production on a moments notice and crush the upstart Tesla. The Model 3 is outselling the Bolt 14-1 despite costing $10,000+ more. The 0 for 3 will finally happen when GM cancels the Bolt as Tesla drops the entry level Model 3 price where any sane person wouldn't even consider the Bolt.
So now the "story line" is that the 0 for 3 GM management who lost the "are you smarter than a 5th grader" contest is going to pour some ungodly billions of $$$ into their autonomous vehicle and EV programs.
Anyone following TMC for the last several years predicted the 0 for 3 long ago, despite the GM fanboys and Wall Street analysts incessant reporting of the latest Tesla killers, blah, blah, blah.
The last Chapter 11 episode for GM was in June 2009. Another opportunity of a lifetime is awaiting those who understand what is coming and figure out the timing for when the rest of the herd will figure it out.
RT
Let's
The best case scenario for the big auto companies is that they get brilliant visionary engineers and designers that can produce a car as good or better than the Model 3 then they run up against battery supply constraints and no charging network. No amount of engineering is going to make building out battery capacity and a charging network go quickly. Tesla has 50% of the entire Li capacity of the world in the Gigafactory and they're still pressed with production shortages. How are any of the big companies going to get around that quickly? Even if there is huge demand for the new EVs they come up with all of them fighting for the remaining 50% they won't be able to produce many cars nor will their battery packs be competitively priced vs. Tesla. If they start their own Gigafactories today it will take at least three years to get them online. Charging network can probably be pushed a little quicker with billions poured in, but it will still take a while maybe two years and that will come at high expense specially if they all have their own propriety chargers. IMO, the Gigafactory and Superchargers may have been the most brilliant move Musk made in EV world even eclipsing cars themselves.
Merrill
Merrill
Totally agree with the last sentence, it is one thing to think of a great looking BEV and design and build it. But the superchargers are one of the most brilliant things Musk has done.
You're basically agreeing with my point. Tesla wouldn't and shouldn't be approaching this from the standpoint -- it s a Tesla interaction and if it's better to not have Musk in the room, then so be it.
