Thinking About Selling Camaro SS 1LE For a Model 3

[chickensworth]

you should definitely rent one on Turo to get a feel for the car and compare to your current ride. the numbers don't tell the whole story since the experience will be night and day.

The LR is quick and zippy... from a dig it'll feel faster... but your Camaro is the faster car. The instant torque makes the car feel and respond faster than it is... and the removal of a transmission makes accessing the torque instantaneous. I personally don' t miss blipping throttles, heel toe shifting, and all the other 'engaging' mechanical aspects of old school driving... the directness of the throttle combined with the immediacy of regen are much more engaging to me from a pure driving POV.
something else you might consider as a performance driver is the seats in the 3 are very comfortable, but they are not sport seats... i wish they had more bolstering and lateral support considering the cornering ability of the car which is excellent.
if you were looking to get into the P, absolutely... i love my P and wouldn't trade it for any car within 50k of it's price range. The LR is a great car, but you should compare it to what you're in now to understand the differences that numbers can't tell. i think you'll like the 3 better, but it's not a slam dunk recommendation in your situation.

 

[1LE McQueen]

Here’s a before and after with the caps taken off. The wheels underneath are pretty nice.
View attachment 389244

Thanks! It's really a night and day difference. Those premium wheels are gorgeous.

I'm very familiar with your car, and have been a "gear head" for most of my adult life. Your comment: "But I really don't want to compromise on performance compared to what I have now" leads me to believe that the Standard Tesla Model 3 will be a very big change. I think you should strongly consider the Model 3 Performance. The entry price for that car is $62,500 plus transport/fees. Fully loaded the car can reach near $70K. That's a lot of car for the money, and should be competitive with, and superior to, the Camaro in many areas. You'll have to decide if the seamless push of the EV powertrain is as satisfying as the "rowing your own" fun of a stick shift transmission. The second big change is how power is delivered. The EV powertrain will provide instantaneous torque, but if you have ever driven on the track you'll find that top end power of ICE cars is still impressive. Finally, there's the "sound" issue. Despite all the problems with ICE engines, the sound they produce is loved by many. Your Camaro still has a lot of life in it, and has depreciated pretty significantly.

Only you can decide if stepping up to a Tesla is the right decision - right in the short term, and long term. As much as I'm a Tesla fan, I've also enjoyed my ICE sports cars. I'm glad to own the Tesla, but I'm a "senior citizen" (slang for "old guy"), and for me 0-60 is less important than a comfortable cutting edge EV. I'm not sure if I'd make the same decision if I were still your age, knowing that EVs will continue to improve in performance, range, and cost.

I'm sure I'll get flamed a bit for my comments, but I'm trying to answer your question from the perspective of a "car guy" who has owned many sports cars, and thoroughly enjoys them, even now.

Thank you very much for your input. I love the Tesla but you pretty much nailed it. I'm afraid for future maintenance costs of the Camaro which is why I wouldn't mind selling at this point. The Model 3 performance would be my ideal car but I need to shoot for cost effectiveness. In my dreams I could have this, and a ZL1 or a GT350R haha.

Perhaps I should play this smart and wait until more things start to break and the gods themselves are telling me it's time to move on.

I haven't been to the track, which probably portrays the image that really I have the 1LE for the visual appeal and bragging rights only. The 1LE pack was a 3500 add on and it was just the smart thing to do considering what it comes with. So far i've changed all 4 tires (because stock they were made for 10k miles), done oil changes, engine filter, cabin filter, battery, and I think that's it. But they're all quite costly. Oh yeah, and premium gasoline.

Yeah I'm over near Tatum and Bell



I drive about 14k miles a year, comes out to about $130-140 a month in gas. APS doesn't have an electric vehicle plan unfortunately. I'm on the Saver Choice Max plan, and my rough estimate was that as long as I charged off-peak (8pm - 3pm) it was going to cost me about $20/month in electricity.



AZ registration is AWESOME for EVs. For the P3D I ordered, $150 gets a 5 year tag. Super cheap compared to a normal car. Here's the page on how to calculate:
Alternate Fuel Vehicle

Thanks for the link, i'll look into it.

Awesome! 150 for 5 years?? 20 a month in electric car fuel?? I'm foaming at the mouth. My lady only works 3 days a week at HonorHealth so during the day she's watching TV or using electricity in some ways. It's been awhile since i've called APS so I don't remember what plan i'm on, but it wouldn't hurt to re-check and re-evaluate my options.

I'm no math wiz but taking everything into account, for cost, Tesla is a no brainer. I'm kind of afraid to lose out on the fun of the Camaro though hence my hesitance.

 

[adhoc]

I can't speak to the wisdom of owing $6k on a 5 yr old depreciating asset?

I too have been performance oriented all my life, owned corvettes mostly,
I thought I'd bought my last one till the 60th anniversary put an LS7 into
a roadster, GM hadn't put a 427 into a roadster since 1969, so I bought 1!

loved the LS7 at startup, it has a great bark! installed a switch that would
open the OEM exhaust rather than require rpm/pedal input to open!
I could stay planted in twistys well past my comfort level, traction control
launches opened every pore of the body! what a viscera pleasure!!!

I 1st day ordered (2) 3's, the S being too large (owned 6 corvette roadsters
past) and too expensive (what's a P100DL cost $140k?) for my needs,
so waited for the perf 3, actually sold the 427 in APR, got delivery of 3
in AUG. I really wasn't that excited in the delivery process, till I drove it home!

427 = 0-60 3.4 secs, if you knew how to handle a clutch, if you didn't it was
embarrassing! perf 3 = 0-60 3.2 secs, no prep or special skills necessary...
it corners as well as any street car, and let's face it, cornering isn't a make or
break street car trait.

and once your on the highway, engage a/p and relax! not having to stop
at filling stations is also a pleasure, I have 220 50A charging at home,
and mostly drive in city/county with occasional cross country trip.

added benefit, this car could be a 20 year vehicle given 20 moving parts
versus 2,000 moving parts of your camaro, that just might get you paid off
and ahead of the need to finance a depreciating asset?

I'll alway appreciate being able to jump into anything with a clutch + high
HP and get it to hook up, viscera! the perf 3 will push your eyeballs back
into their sockets in a way that a V8 will never be able, and do it silently!

 

[MoreAgain]

I was in a similar situation. I bought a new Camaro ZL1 in 2013 for $60k (plus sales tax and gas guzzler tax!) I have no commute and only put about 4k miles a year on the car, much of it on the track and going back and forth to the track. I loved the car.

I'm not entirely sure why, but over the last year or two I found myself taking it out to the track less and less. Whenever my wife and I would go somewhere, we always took her car, so mine was just sitting in my garage most of the time. Then my wife decided to trade in her Lexus for a RWD Model 3. We'd always liked the idea of an electric car, and I knew it would be fun to drive, but my expectations we greatly exceeded.

Within three weeks of picking up her car, I had sold the Camaro to Carvana and ordered my own RWD Model 3. I considered the Performance version, but I prefer the characteristics of RWD on the track, and was looking to put as little out of pocket as possible. Now coming from 580 hp down to 280ish, would I like a bit more grunt down the straights? Sure! But the joy of driving this car, especially through the corners, has re-awakened by interest in getting out to the track more often. And being able to fit adult humans in the back seat and pay next to nothing for fuel is just an added bonus.

Tesla RWD Model 3 Chasing Camaro ZL1 - Willow Springs

As for the cost, I was lucky enough to get the full federal and CA credits, (along with power company rebates and HOV stickers!) and got a great price for my Camaro (check out Carvana - I got $5k more than what anyone else was offering.) But if you can swing it financially, I don't think you'll regret the purchase!

 

[Thomas Edison]

Thanks! It's really a night and day difference. Those premium wheels are gorgeous.

Not sure if you’re talking about other wheels or not. The ones in the pic I posted are the the same wheel on both cars. One simply has the wheel cover removed. (And a lug nut, center cap $50 kit installed)

 

[1LE McQueen]

Here's a good article, written by one of the gear head members here (@phantasms)

Thank you! I'll read it shortly.

you should definitely rent one on Turo to get a feel for the car and compare to your current ride. the numbers don't tell the whole story since the experience will be night and day.

The LR is quick and zippy... from a dig it'll feel faster... but your Camaro is the faster car. The instant torque makes the car feel and respond faster than it is... and the removal of a transmission makes accessing the torque instantaneous. I personally don' t miss blipping throttles, heel toe shifting, and all the other 'engaging' mechanical aspects of old school driving... the directness of the throttle combined with the immediacy of regen are much more engaging to me from a pure driving POV.
something else you might consider as a performance driver is the seats in the 3 are very comfortable, but they are not sport seats... i wish they had more bolstering and lateral support considering the cornering ability of the car which is excellent.
if you were looking to get into the P, absolutely... i love my P and wouldn't trade it for any car within 50k of it's price range. The LR is a great car, but you should compare it to what you're in now to understand the differences that numbers can't tell. i think you'll like the 3 better, but it's not a slam dunk recommendation in your situation.

hmm.. You have great points and they're all things i'd take into account. My transmission is a little rough around the edges, it can't be rushed. I think it's a opportunity cost situation. I'll lose out on performnce, but will gain in maintenance. Car payments might be more expensive, but car will be less expensive overall. Lots of things to weigh here.

I don't have the recaro seats but mine are leather and comfortable.

I can't speak to the wisdom of owing $6k on a 5 yr old depreciating asset?

I too have been performance oriented all my life, owned corvettes mostly,
I thought I'd bought my last one till the 60th anniversary put an LS7 into
a roadster, GM hadn't put a 427 into a roadster since 1969, so I bought 1!

loved the LS7 at startup, it has a great bark! installed a switch that would
open the OEM exhaust rather than require rpm/pedal input to open!
I could stay planted in twistys well past my comfort level, traction control
launches opened every pore of the body! what a viscera pleasure!!!

I 1st day ordered (2) 3's, the S being too large (owned 6 corvette roadsters
past) and too expensive (what's a P100DL cost $140k?) for my needs,
so waited for the perf 3, actually sold the 427 in APR, got delivery of 3
in AUG. I really wasn't that excited in the delivery process, till I drove it home!

427 = 0-60 3.4 secs, if you knew how to handle a clutch, if you didn't it was
embarrassing! perf 3 = 0-60 3.2 secs, no prep or special skills necessary...
it corners as well as any street car, and let's face it, cornering isn't a make or
break street car trait.

and once your on the highway, engage a/p and relax! not having to stop
at filling stations is also a pleasure, I have 220 50A charging at home,
and mostly drive in city/county with occasional cross country trip.

added benefit, this car could be a 20 year vehicle given 20 moving parts
versus 2,000 moving parts of your camaro, that just might get you paid off
and ahead of the need to finance a depreciating asset?

I'll alway appreciate being able to jump into anything with a clutch + high
HP and get it to hook up, viscera! the perf 3 will push your eyeballs back
into their sockets in a way that a V8 will never be able, and do it silently!

I think I misunderstand your first sentence, but 5 years ago I was single, living at home, and making really good money as a server. Now I have a condo, increased HOA / ESCROW payments, a dead end career, a girlfriend (and her dog), we just got 2 loving kittens. 5 years ago it was my dream, now it's sort of my liability. I still love it though and don't want to rush anything.

haha if I could I would definitely be like you. I was the one who convinced my import loving dad to get a 2015 C7 Z51. He's since had it supercharged and is waiting for the reveal of the mid engine.

I was in a similar situation. I bought a new Camaro ZL1 in 2013 for $60k (plus sales tax and gas guzzler tax!) I have no commute and only put about 4k miles a year on the car, much of it on the track and going back and forth to the track. I loved the car.

I'm not entirely sure why, but over the last year or two I found myself taking it out to the track less and less. Whenever my wife and I would go somewhere, we always took her car, so mine was just sitting in my garage most of the time. Then my wife decided to trade in her Lexus for a RWD Model 3. We'd always liked the idea of an electric car, and I knew it would be fun to drive, but my expectations we greatly exceeded.

Within three weeks of picking up her car, I had sold the Camaro to Carvana and ordered my own RWD Model 3. I considered the Performance version, but I prefer the characteristics of RWD on the track, and was looking to put as little out of pocket as possible. Now coming from 580 hp down to 280ish, would I like a bit more grunt down the straights? Sure! But the joy of driving this car, especially through the corners, has re-awakened by interest in getting out to the track more often. And being able to fit adult humans in the back seat and pay next to nothing for fuel is just an added bonus.

Tesla RWD Model 3 Chasing Camaro ZL1 - Willow Springs

As for the cost, I was lucky enough to get the full federal and CA credits, (along with power company rebates and HOV stickers!) and got a great price for my Camaro (check out Carvana - I got $5k more than what anyone else was offering.) But if you can swing it financially, I don't think you'll regret the purchase!

I was actually watching your videos the other day!!! I was curious as to how the Tesla would stack up against a Camaro and your channel made the top results. How funny that you're on here as well.

I really appreciate your story. I don't track mainly because i'm scared of the costs associated with it. I like to think i'd do great. But if you come from a ZL1 and enjoy your M3 (the same one i'm looking at), that's really all the confirmation I need.

 

[1LE McQueen]

Not sure if you’re talking about other wheels or not. The ones in the pic I posted are the the same wheel on both cars. One simply has the wheel cover removed. (And a lug nut, center cap $50 kit installed)

Oh.. i'm confused, I thought the wheel cover was the actual wheel on the standard version?

 

[Chancellor32]

Oh.. i'm confused, I thought the wheel cover was the actual wheel on the standard version?

Not sure what your budget is but you can get a P3 with some discounts for like 52k right now. 0-60 is 3.2 seconds, crazy fast. Car looks identical to the one on my profile pic.

 

[1LE McQueen]

Not sure what your budget is but you can get a P3 with some discounts for like 52k right now. 0-60 is 3.2 seconds, crazy fast. Car looks identical to the one on my profile pic.

That would be amazing. I need to keep the payments around 400-500 a month and i'd only have maybe 10 or 15k to put down. Maybe I can squeeze out more. I hate to say it but I don't see it happening.

 

[astrowunder]

Oh.. i'm confused, I thought the wheel cover was the actual wheel on the standard version?

Nope- the Aero covers are just hubcaps. Easily removed and added. The wheels underneath are very nice.

 

[1LE McQueen]

Nope- the Aero covers are just hubcaps. Easily removed and added. The wheels underneath are very nice.

Then my decision is made that's awesome. No need to spend the extra 1500.

 

[astrowunder]

Then my decision is made that's awesome. No need to spend the extra 1500.

That's actually one of the reasons I went with the (now unicorned) P3D- (aka stealth). I had the option of high efficiency and extra thick tires for comfort and also the option to remove the aeros for looks, though to be honest I almost never remove the aeros any more- they've grown on me.

 

[Msjulie]

I'm another stealth performance owner like @astrowunder , most previous cars were always VW or Audi (various Audi Quattros) but I'm not looking back. If you like to tinker or put another way - can't leave well enough alone - there are things you can do to make the Model 3 more yours.. I've had my calipers painted just because and I put on MPP rotors all around.

The car is really quick, mine is screwed together fine and feels solid and comfortable at quite illegal speeds. Depending on which flavor, they are all pretty quick and Tesla has brought back the referral program so you can get 1000miles of free supercharging. What's not to love!

 

[Nocturnal]

Nice car. I'm a former F-body owner myself (98 trans am, with work done). Personally, I don't know how happy you will be going from a Camaro to the LR model 3. If you like speed/performance, and it sounds like you do, then that will be a downgrade, though maybe not off the line. For sure Tesla offers many benefits and the LR is a better all around car, but if you are like me, speed is part and parcel to the driving experience. The interior is very comfortable and you will come to love the simple design. ICE cars make me want to puke now with all the buttons and dials everywhere.

I was very close to ordering a BMW M3 manual before going with the performance 3. I really wanted to get back into a manual car and was worried I would miss that. I really don't. The instant electric torque is an excellent tradeoff for that. The rumble of a nice V8 sounds amazing, until it doesn't. Now I can either hear my music better or the sound of my tires gripping (or not) the pavement.

I strongly encourage you to look for a used performance 3. Not sure what your time horizon is but there will definitely be more available once the model Y starts being delivered (that's a few years away though).

One more data point. I've driven my Tesla 13k miles so far. It has cost me about 400 bucks in electricity. That BMW would have been about $1500 in gas. Plus I'd have already had to pay for an oil change. I've saved $1100 over the 7 months I've owned this car. That essentially brings my payment down almost 200 bucks a month if I factor in oil changes.

 

[1LE McQueen]

Here's a good article, written by one of the gear head members here (@phantasms)

The article is very convincing, especially coming from someone (the writer) who used to own a C7 Z06. He had the performance version which is unfortunately out of my price range.

 

[Nocturnal]

The article is very convincing, especially coming from someone (the writer) who used to own a C7 Z06. He had the performance version which is unfortunately out of my price range.

Rent one and spend a day with it. I know plenty of gear heads (I'd mostly place myself in that category) that love their 3s.

 

[1LE McQueen]

I'm another stealth performance owner like @astrowunder , most previous cars were always VW or Audi (various Audi Quattros) but I'm not looking back. If you like to tinker or put another way - can't leave well enough alone - there are things you can do to make the Model 3 more yours.. I've had my calipers painted just because and I put on MPP rotors all around.

The car is really quick, mine is screwed together fine and feels solid and comfortable at quite illegal speeds. Depending on which flavor, they are all pretty quick and Tesla has brought back the referral program so you can get 1000miles of free supercharging. What's not to love!

Mine's more bark than bite, but damn if that bark isn't fun. I really wanted to do longtube headers but was never able to pull the funds together. Now i'm looking at a Model 3. Funny how life works lol.

My girlfriend's brother works at Tesla Maintenance, i'm gonna see if there's some sort of discount I can look into.

Nice car. I'm a former F-body owner myself (98 trans am, with work done). Personally, I don't know how happy you will be going from a Camaro to the LR model 3. If you like speed/performance, and it sounds like you do, then that will be a downgrade, though maybe not off the line. For sure Tesla offers many benefits and the LR is a better all around car, but if you are like me, speed is part and parcel to the driving experience. The interior is very comfortable and you will come to love the simple design. ICE cars make me want to puke now with all the buttons and dials everywhere.

I was very close to ordering a BMW M3 manual before going with the performance 3. I really wanted to get back into a manual car and was worried I would miss that. I really don't. The instant electric torque is an excellent tradeoff for that. The rumble of a nice V8 sounds amazing, until it doesn't. Now I can either hear my music better or the sound of my tires gripping (or not) the pavement.

I strongly encourage you to look for a used performance 3. Not sure what your time horizon is but there will definitely be more available once the model Y starts being delivered (that's a few years away though).

One more data point. I've driven my Tesla 13k miles so far. It has cost me about 400 bucks in electricity. That BMW would have been about $1500 in gas. Plus I'd have already had to pay for an oil change. I've saved $1100 over the 7 months I've owned this car. That essentially brings my payment down almost 200 bucks a month if I factor in oil changes.

Thanks alot. Before the Camaro I had a 2002 WS6 and that was a blast so it's always nice to see a fellow F-body enthusiast. I pray that at some point in the future, I can get a ZL1 or something as a weekend warrior.

I'd really like the performance model, and you all are convincing me to give it a second chance. Here's where i'm at..

--Car is at 40k miles
--407 a month for car payment, 72 months. I put 15,000 down.
--I still owe 6k, which will be about another year or so to pay off
--I paid 1500 for new tires at 12k miles, might need new brake pads in 5 or 10k miles. Oil life percentage is at 80 or 90. I don't foresee any immediate maintenance coming up, but i've had it for 5 years in Jul.
--Right now I hardly drive. Maybe 1.5 miles to work, 1.5 miles back. I'll start driving 4 miles to gym, 4 miles back in the near future.

I'm estimating I can sell at 20k. I can put down 10k. I'd like to keep 1 or 2k from the sale for now.

Not sure how feasible it is to get a performance version, which might be why I need to go to Tesla and collaboratively crunch in some numbers. I want to stay at 400 - 450 car payments.

 

[JoshPA]

You probably won't be happy with anything less than the P3D... Make sure you drive the car first.

 

[astrowunder]

My girlfriend's brother works at Tesla Maintenance, i'm gonna see if there's some sort of discount I can look into.

I wouldn't get your hopes up for that. AFAIK everyone pays the same price for the new cars (well unless you count the constant price changes by Tesla!)

 

[1LE McQueen]

You probably won't be happy with anything less than the P3D... Make sure you drive the car first.

Right, I think I agree. It's just that I need to be cost effective more so than performance oriented. Which then even asks the question if I should really be considering this.

I'm not in a rush to sell the Camaro, but if I can get similar / better performance numbers for the cost it'll be a no brainer.