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Thinking of selling/trading the Model 3, want more space

arghx7

Member
Aug 6, 2019
499
506
Michigan
If your wife loves the mustang, you’re the one have to choose between Miata and M3 then. If you love the EV side of your M3, I would say go for the Y. It’s just a bigger M3 with more room. Otherwise, the minivan is a good choice. It is real versatile as a family car.
BTW, how do you like the handling of M3, compared with Miata? I always want to get a Miata. Sadly, they don’t have it in China now. Otherwise, it would be my first choice.

It's hard to compare the Model 3 and the Miata (which is a 2002 model year, they are cheap and easy to find still). The Miata is very small by the standards of the USA car market. The nice thing about the Model 3 is that the weight is down low. I had a Challenger with a 5.7 liter and a manual transmission which weighed about the same as my Model 3, but all the weight was in the front under the hood. The Model 3 drives like a car that weights 500 kilograms less than its actual weight.

The Pacifica PHEV drives like a really boring hybrid, like a Prius, which isn't surprising because it's basic design is similar to what a Prius uses with the power split planetary gear transaxle. Also the front wheel drive is bad for torque steer and wheelspin, even on dry pavement. The new AWD models are much better driving, but now you've got a car with much worse efficiency.

I've spent a significant amount of time in a Model Y (performance model). It's not quite as spacious and practical as a minivan but it's probably close enough. It does still handle much better than a minivan. I do miss having Apple Carplay (especially wireless version that's now available in the Pacifica and a few other models) for the app integration. Tesla's navigation, voice commands, and sound system on the long range cars are really good. However they just can't fully have the functionality of Apple Carplay/Android auto, because Apple and Google make so many apps work with the car.

I don't have the option of changing cars until I finish closing on my house in a couple weeks, so I'm still gathering opinions and information.
 

StanT

Member
Jan 23, 2020
148
184
Fishkill
I have a MY- so I'm not in your boat exactly.. but I have 2 nearly adult kids one already over 6'1" and 90% of everything we do is with the MY.. and right now they fit just great.

BUT I used to have hybrid Camry when we used the car seat (Camry with 1/3 of the trunk), and I agree that the car seat is a pain.... What we did was get a cheap/used minivan in addition to the Camry. We still used the Camry for 80% of our driving and the minivan was there for the 20% when we needed crazy space (I'm not a fan of Chryslers either- every one I have ever owned or friends with Chryslers needed a new transmission at 68k miles-ish). We had a Kia minivan at first, now we have an old Sienna AWD- but minivans are freakin HUGE for the money- and really flexible in use (people/cargo mix). And you can get reduced car insurance on the 2nd car if you tell them you really don't put many miles on it- saving some $$. Plus it is nice to have a backup car- just in case.

So you may want to just hang in with the M3- that massive car seat will pretty quickly go down to a less massive one, making it a little easier... and look for an old minivan to augment your fleet- 1 playdate and you'll be happy you have a minivan. Then in the future- MY or Cybertruck or used MX or the Volkswagen minibus electric (if they ever make it). That's MHO... Best of luck on the decision.
 
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sunjack

Member
Apr 20, 2021
28
2
Shanghai, China
It's hard to compare the Model 3 and the Miata (which is a 2002 model year, they are cheap and easy to find still). The Miata is very small by the standards of the USA car market. The nice thing about the Model 3 is that the weight is down low. I had a Challenger with a 5.7 liter and a manual transmission which weighed about the same as my Model 3, but all the weight was in the front under the hood. The Model 3 drives like a car that weights 500 kilograms less than its actual weight.

The Pacifica PHEV drives like a really boring hybrid, like a Prius, which isn't surprising because it's basic design is similar to what a Prius uses with the power split planetary gear transaxle. Also the front wheel drive is bad for torque steer and wheelspin, even on dry pavement. The new AWD models are much better driving, but now you've got a car with much worse efficiency.

I've spent a significant amount of time in a Model Y (performance model). It's not quite as spacious and practical as a minivan but it's probably close enough. It does still handle much better than a minivan. I do miss having Apple Carplay (especially wireless version that's now available in the Pacifica and a few other models) for the app integration. Tesla's navigation, voice commands, and sound system on the long range cars are really good. However they just can't fully have the functionality of Apple Carplay/Android auto, because Apple and Google make so many apps work with the car.

I don't have the option of changing cars until I finish closing on my house in a couple weeks, so I'm still gathering opinions and information.
It seems to me that you cared about the handling of car. Then get a MY. Nobody wants to drive a boring car, what's the point of getting one? IMO, the space of MY is enough, if just one kid. I have two kids, still want to get a M3, because the handling is slightly better (from what I heard. to be honest, haven't got the chance to drive a MY yet), and cheaper. I intended to keep my 2014 Mazda 5, just in case a "bigger" car, long distance travel is needed.
I like carplay too. There are some aftermarket dashboard diaplay (I guess for the people who are used to looking down for the speedometer), which is claimed to be carplay compatible. I don't like to change the wiring, so probably will not get one.
 
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LoudMusic

Member
Jul 21, 2020
353
447
Arkansas
Why not rent something bigger for what you describe as "occasional use?" Buying and selling or adding cars is very expensive to address an occasional use, and you could pay for a lot of rentals before you broke even, if ever.

Also, it's a good example of why leases can suck for some people. If your situation/needs change, having a lease vehicle makes it harder to adapt to those changes, and almost never saves money overall.

Furthermore, a round trip rental can often be very inexpensive. Last year we did several one week round trip rentals that were $35/day and we put over 2000 miles on the car each time. Using the EPA cost per mile estimates that was cheaper than driving our own vehicle (wear and tear / lost value).

You can't always get a car that cheap but it's almost always better to do this than drive your own vehicle long distances.
 
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arghx7

Member
Aug 6, 2019
499
506
Michigan
I've been weighing getting a used minivan as an occasional car. I like the Stow 'n' Go of the Chrysler minivans, but the middle seats don't slide with that function. A Sienna is a pretty reliable vehicle (middle seats don't fold flat like a Chrysler), but I think I'd have to spend $15k here to get one in good condition. I've been looking around for one. However when you throw in the cost of a decent van on top of having the Model 3, maybe I should just get a Model Y and be done with it.
 

Apprunner

Member
Jul 2, 2019
495
573
So-cal
I've been weighing getting a used minivan as an occasional car. I like the Stow 'n' Go of the Chrysler minivans, but the middle seats don't slide with that function. A Sienna is a pretty reliable vehicle (middle seats don't fold flat like a Chrysler), but I think I'd have to spend $15k here to get one in good condition. I've been looking around for one. However when you throw in the cost of a decent van on top of having the Model 3, maybe I should just get a Model Y and be done with it.

I've had a minivan for about 8 years and also had midsize SUVs. They don't really compare space wise and as time goes on, kids require more space as you haul around their sports equipment and sports friends :D Some of the larger SUVs these days actually do compare favorably with minivans, like the Kia Telluride, but also handle decently.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you barely drive your car these days so its a pretty expensive depreciating asset. My advice to you is to evaluate whether the Model Y will meet your needs in the future for space as it will be heavily compromised vs. an actual minivan. If you think the minivan space will be needed, then definitely get the minivan but then that leaves you with 4 cars (and 4 insurance payments). Another option of course is to sell the 3 and get a larger 7 seater SUV that is comparable to minivans (not the Model Y). Good luck :)
 

zer0cool

Member
Apr 26, 2015
506
332
charlotte, nc
If you are OK with spending high 50s you should look into pre-owned Porsche Cayenne (like a certified S from 4 years ago or even a GTS if you can find a lucky one) or very late model BMW X5 (new gen from 2019). These are probably the best driving cars of their size and honestly are much better cars than the Model Y (just much nicer in general and all details).

Or if you need a bit more room can go for a fairly late model Q7 for probably way less (low 40s). However Q7 drives kind of like a boat, but probably still much better than minivan. Again the car will be very nice, much better than any regular brand minivan or Model Y.

Can also look into the new Genesis SUV, GV80, as well. Looks really nice, super nice interior and reviews are all pretty positive. Of course it's also on the soft/boaty side.
 
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T3SLAROD

Member
May 14, 2019
746
663
SoCal
Just get the Model Y, if anything the Fed Incentive might come back while you are waiting. Keep the Miata for when you want to have fun.
 

arghx7

Member
Aug 6, 2019
499
506
Michigan
If you are OK with spending high 50s you should look into pre-owned Porsche Cayenne (like a certified S from 4 years ago or even a GTS if you can find a lucky one) or very late model BMW X5 (new gen from 2019). These are probably the best driving cars of their size and honestly are much better cars than the Model Y (just much nicer in general and all details).

Or if you need a bit more room can go for a fairly late model Q7 for probably way less (low 40s). However Q7 drives kind of like a boat, but probably still much better than minivan. Again the car will be very nice, much better than any regular brand minivan or Model Y.

Can also look into the new Genesis SUV, GV80, as well. Looks really nice, super nice interior and reviews are all pretty positive. Of course it's also on the soft/boaty side.

I don't trust German car cost of ownership/reliability (and here I am with a Tesla talking about getting a Chrysler, I know). I haven't been in an X5 recently but a family member had one in the late 2000s and I remember it being surprisingly cramped on the inside.

I thought about a Telluride. That's been a major consideration at first, but I'm also thinking why not go all out and just get the thing with the most usable space. The irrational side of me acknowledges the image problem that minivans have though. It's like if I get a minivan, people say "you don't have 4 kids! why are you getting that!" but my coworker who is single gets a crew cab Ram and nobody questions why he needs such a big vehicle.
 

sroy

Closed
Mar 13, 2021
542
224
New Jersey
It's unlikely that this summer will be any different than last summer covid-wise as things are going as of right now. There are too many covid denialists busy incubating new strains that may make the current vaccine obsolete. So you can probably endure one more year on status quo car-wise IMO.

Otherwise, feels to me that a beater 7 seater would be my preferred option if I were in your situation. I'm actually moving from the 7 seater beater to model 3 now that my kids are old enough to not trash a car. That being said, the price of a beater family car is unlikely to be lower than the occasional rental. So which is more of a hassle? Rental or stuffing a model 3? I never found renting to be a hassle at all especially "post covid". Touchless pickup etc. You basically just get to the lot, navigate an app pick up the keys and go.

My 7 seater cost me about 10K in 2016 (it's a 2014 model) + gas and maintenance. The advantage of rental is if you need a pickup truck, you got a pickup truck. If you need a large SUV, you got a large SUV. If you need a etc... and it's still cheaper than an extra family car. That would be a no brainer to me.
 
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arghx7

Member
Aug 6, 2019
499
506
Michigan
Drove a mid trim level Telluride today. It has an actual usable 3rd row. I liked the car exterior and interior but the driving experience was forgettable. Pacifica AWD is better to drive.

I think if I go with a Y I will stick with 5 seater, basic autopilot, and black interior to save cost.
 
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Twincam23

Member
Apr 2, 2016
184
288
los angeles
we reserved the Model Y (7 seater option) the night of the reveal. We took it for a test drive when it was finally available. My 3 teenagers gave it the thumbs down. They basically said it's not much bigger than the Model 3 which they hate when we go on long trips.
With 3 growing teenagers and 2 big dogs, we needed something bigger and I couldn't justify the $100K plus Model X. I would rather pay down my mortgage than spend that much money on a car.
So I suckered my wife into getting a KIA Telluride. She didn't want anything to do with the brand until we test drove it.
The features, warranty, and price for the Telluride, it's a win in every category.
It just doesn't have the torque of any hybrid or electric car.
But at least my kids and dogs can spaciously travel happily on our adventures.

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T3SLAROD

Member
May 14, 2019
746
663
SoCal
Good luck with the KIA. I am hoping they finally fixed their issues with quality control. I had a Sorento 7 seater all the bells and whistles that I loved until I started having issues 6 months later with their transmissions.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,895
9,908
Riverside Co. CA
Good luck with the KIA. I am hoping they finally fixed their issues with quality control. I had a Sorento 7 seater all the bells and whistles that I loved until I started having issues 6 months later with their transmissions.

We had a Kia Sorrento we got new and had for 11 years and 150k Miles and never did anything other than regular maintenance ( tires, oil changes) and a CV boot once. The paint didnt hold up great in spots after about 9 years parked outside in the sun, but other than that, it was a great car for us.
 

T3SLAROD

Member
May 14, 2019
746
663
SoCal
We had a Kia Sorrento we got new and had for 11 years and 150k Miles and never did anything other than regular maintenance ( tires, oil changes) and a CV boot once. The paint didnt hold up great in spots after about 9 years parked outside in the sun, but other than that, it was a great car for us.

I think I had bad luck because I purchased right after the new model was introduced in 2010. The engine and interior were great but after the transmission issues I ran away and purchased an Acura MDX instead. I've had that for 7 years with no issues. Just waiting on the CT to drop to get rid of that now.
 

Apprunner

Member
Jul 2, 2019
495
573
So-cal
we reserved the Model Y (7 seater option) the night of the reveal. We took it for a test drive when it was finally available. My 3 teenagers gave it the thumbs down. They basically said it's not much bigger than the Model 3 which they hate when we go on long trips.
With 3 growing teenagers and 2 big dogs, we needed something bigger and I couldn't justify the $100K plus Model X. I would rather pay down my mortgage than spend that much money on a car.
So I suckered my wife into getting a KIA Telluride. She didn't want anything to do with the brand until we test drove it.
The features, warranty, and price for the Telluride, it's a win in every category.
It just doesn't have the torque of any hybrid or electric car.
But at least my kids and dogs can spaciously travel happily on our adventures.

View attachment 657355

View attachment 657356

View attachment 657357

We bought an Odyssey when our 2nd turned 3 years old as we were doing a lot of driving due to sports with our older kid. We took tons of trips to places like the Grand Canyon and Yosemite and its such a breeze in a large SUV or Minivan. We are keeping it until the wheels come off but we got a little ICE for daily trips as the minivan gets older. Thinking about replacing that with something like the Model Y later but the minivan stays for soccer trips where the car gets annihilated in the parking lots by other kids or careless parents...its super nice to have a car you care nothing about and is super practical.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,895
9,908
Riverside Co. CA
I think I had bad luck because I purchased right after the new model was introduced in 2010. The engine and interior were great but after the transmission issues I ran away and purchased an Acura MDX instead. I've had that for 7 years with no issues. Just waiting on the CT to drop to get rid of that now.

Ours was a 2004, so 1st gen I think. I think the Telluride (not sure if I am spelling that correctly) is a great looking vehicle, and a great value for what you get.

MiniVans are likely the "best" vehicle for a growing family, but there is a stigma with them, which is why everyone buys SUVs. Its kind of like station wagons. Those are still popular in europe I believe, but you cant give one away here, and for most people, they are likely the "best" vehicle for a growing family.

Plenty of space, good mileage etc.

A lot of people feel like when they buy a mini van (or a wagon), they are instantly trading in their youth for a receding hairline, yoga pants, and a life completely revolving around their children and nothing else (that last part is likely true hehe). SUVs serve the same purpose but dont have the same stigma, at least yet.
 

Pyre

Member
Apr 10, 2021
284
122
Syracuse, NY
We bought an Odyssey when our 2nd turned 3 years old as we were doing a lot of driving due to sports with our older kid. We took tons of trips to places like the Grand Canyon and Yosemite and its such a breeze in a large SUV or Minivan. We are keeping it until the wheels come off but we got a little ICE for daily trips as the minivan gets older. Thinking about replacing that with something like the Model Y later but the minivan stays for soccer trips where the car gets annihilated in the parking lots by other kids or careless parents...its super nice to have a car you care nothing about and is super practical.
I am looking at a new pacifica for the wife shortly when i get rid of the truck for a M3, I never cared for a mini van but the practicality is surprising. Id be all over and SRT style pacifica though
 
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Pyre

Member
Apr 10, 2021
284
122
Syracuse, NY
Ours was a 2004, so 1st gen I think. I think the Telluride (not sure if I am spelling that correctly) is a great looking vehicle, and a great value for what you get.

MiniVans are likely the "best" vehicle for a growing family, but there is a stigma with them, which is why everyone buys SUVs. Its kind of like station wagons. Those are still popular in europe I believe, but you cant give one away here, and for most people, they are likely the "best" vehicle for a growing family.

Plenty of space, good mileage etc.

A lot of people feel like when they buy a mini van (or a wagon), they are instantly trading in their youth for a receding hairline, yoga pants, and a life completely revolving around their children and nothing else (that last part is likely true hehe). SUVs serve the same purpose but dont have the same stigma, at least yet.
All the more reason the wife gets the van and i get the M3P! Id take an rs6 or e63 amg s wagon... wagons are nice. Miss my 02 audi S6 avant!
 
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