I’m leaning toward the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S for my replacement tires since I live in Southern California. But I would be curious to know if anyone has gone with an all season tire in a warm weather climate, like the Michelin Cross Climate or AS3+. I’d hate to miss out on an occasional trip to the mountains because I have summer tires.
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Time for new tires on my dual motor
- Thread starter golfpilot
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=216
A/S 3+ beats the Pirelli in:
Handling real-world
Dry cornering
Dry steering response
Dry braking modulation
Dry handling predictability
Dry overall track rating
Dry lap time
Dry stopping distance
Dry Average cornering (G-force)
The Pirelli takes most of the "wet" tests over the A/S 3+
If the differences aren't worth the cost to you, fair enough- but there's plenty either does "better" than the other.
That's exactly the thing I'm trying to figure too... the PS4s would work for all but a handful of days where I live... everything shuts down when it snows anyway so that's not any concern- but it DOES get below freezing, at least at night, at least a few dozen days a year...
My previous sport sedan I went the summer tire route and we just used our SUV (with winter tires) for those rare days the summer tire wasn't safe... but it's getting older and we don't drive it nearly as much since getting the Tesla so almost wondering if something like the A/S3+ so I can drive it anytime makes more sense.
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That test concludes with a video that ends with saying the Pirelli was either 1st or a close second in every category and is the new leader in the class. It appears the A/S 3+ is slightly better for Dry conditions but if I wanted a good dry tire I'd go get a summer tire. Have something that is a little better dry but not as good at anything else, at a premium cost, doesn't make much sense to me. At least for my driving profile.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I agree, was just addressing your claim " there is nothing, on paper, the AS3+ does better than Pirelli's" which was certainly not the results tire rack found.... the things it's better at may well be less important to you than the things it's worse at but they're each better at some things than the other.
For example someone who say lives where it doesn't rain a ton, but DOES get below freezing sometimes, summer tires wouldn't be a great all-year option....for them the better-in-dry A/S 3+ might still be the best choice.
For someone where it's wet reasonable often the Pirellis might be the better option.
For someone where it's NOT going to ever need be driven below freezing all-seasons make no sense anyway and you'd get summers over either AS tire.
linux-works
Active Member
have I missed any discussion on this one?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...n&tireModel=CrossClimate+&partnum=345YR8CCPXL
that tread style has, in the past, avoided all 'following ruts in the road' bad behavior. there can be slow changing ruts or mostly in-line ones (pavement voids) and this style never squirms.
the one review on TR from a model3 owner is glowing.
anyone here try them, yet?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...n&tireModel=CrossClimate+&partnum=345YR8CCPXL
that tread style has, in the past, avoided all 'following ruts in the road' bad behavior. there can be slow changing ruts or mostly in-line ones (pavement voids) and this style never squirms.
the one review on TR from a model3 owner is glowing.
anyone here try them, yet?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
AFAIK the cross-climate is better in "real" winter than either the A/S 3+ or the Pirelli by a fair bit- but a significant step down in performance (it's literally not in the same class)
timk225
Active Member
Mmmmmmm, I think a better comparison could be made to Ken Block for going around corners hard. See his youtube videos.
DarkNightP3D
Member
I am in the process of figuring out what tires to replace my PS4S tires with and I really don't know what to do. I want to find someone that has a Performance 3 and has replaced the stock 20" tires with something other than 4S, but there seems to be very few who actively participate online that have done just that. I am looking at a couple of tires in 245/35R20 size because there's simply some options available. Those include: Conti DWS 06, Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Bridgestone Potenza RE980AS, etc.
For all-seasons in the stock size (235/35R20), there's only two options I am aware of: Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, or I just discovered a BRAND NEW Toyo Proxes Sport A/S that isn't even listed on Tire Rack or Discount Tire's website yet, but I found it when browsing on Toyo's website. They have it listed as "all new" and it even has the Model 3 being listed as an ideal fit. As its a new tire, there's no reviews from other Model 3 owners, or even Tire Rack about that tire and how it compares. I may be able to get that tire from Discount Tire, try it and if its not any less efficient or substantially louder than the PS4S I'm getting rid of, I would be satisfied. I just want to get back some of the range lost to the summer performance tires, but due to the lack of tire options for us with 20" wheels (in the stock size) I don't know what tire to get that won't either ruin handling completely or end up being even less efficient than the stock summer tires.
If anyone with a Performance Model 3 or anyone in general that has replaced Pilot Sport 4S tires on their Model 3 with any of the common all-season tires can let me know what their experience has been with range/efficiency, I'd love to know!
For all-seasons in the stock size (235/35R20), there's only two options I am aware of: Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, or I just discovered a BRAND NEW Toyo Proxes Sport A/S that isn't even listed on Tire Rack or Discount Tire's website yet, but I found it when browsing on Toyo's website. They have it listed as "all new" and it even has the Model 3 being listed as an ideal fit. As its a new tire, there's no reviews from other Model 3 owners, or even Tire Rack about that tire and how it compares. I may be able to get that tire from Discount Tire, try it and if its not any less efficient or substantially louder than the PS4S I'm getting rid of, I would be satisfied. I just want to get back some of the range lost to the summer performance tires, but due to the lack of tire options for us with 20" wheels (in the stock size) I don't know what tire to get that won't either ruin handling completely or end up being even less efficient than the stock summer tires.
If anyone with a Performance Model 3 or anyone in general that has replaced Pilot Sport 4S tires on their Model 3 with any of the common all-season tires can let me know what their experience has been with range/efficiency, I'd love to know!
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The PS4S is the best street performance tire on the market- which is probably why you can't find anybody who replaced theirs with something else if that's the goal in mind.
All-season wise, Michelin appears to be replacing the A/S 3+ (which is listed as clearance on tirerack presently) with the newer Pilot Sport All Season 4 that supposedly improves it in a number of ways.
Keep in mind more efficient generally means worse handling and longer braking distances.
All-season wise, Michelin appears to be replacing the A/S 3+ (which is listed as clearance on tirerack presently) with the newer Pilot Sport All Season 4 that supposedly improves it in a number of ways.
Keep in mind more efficient generally means worse handling and longer braking distances.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Short form of a long story, if you're looking for something that is a summer Tire, do not buy anything other than the Tesla specific Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tire. There is no tire for the street that is even close if you're talking about about summer conditions. If you're looking for an all-season if there's a way you can wait until the replacement for the Pilot Sport All Season 3 plus I'd do that. It's supposed to be spectacular.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Speaking of those (and the PS4S) this might be a useful reference for some folks
High performance summer tire test - Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport vs. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S vs. Continental SportContact 6 vs. Toyo Proxes Sport + others
DarkNightP3D
Member
I personally don’t find the 20% impact on range worth the supposed improvement in handling. These cars handle well regardless of tires because of their low center of gravity and very firm suspension setup. Even on MXM4 tires the car is more fun to drive than a 3-series on more aggressive tread. I think the reason more people haven’t gotten rid of PS4S is because there’s literally been one option in the stock size/: AS3+, but it’s not T0 spec so people are concerned it could be noisier. For those of us who live in a climate where we get cold temps part of the year, the PS4S has many shortcomings (must not be subjected to temps below certain point or it will damage the tire), everything sticks to the tire (rocks, little fine debris), and it hurts your range drastically. For those of us who don’t live in California or surrounding states, a 20% decrease in range is the difference between a trip being possible and being forced to take an ICE instead.
DarkNightP3D
Member
What about energy efficiency vs. PS4S.
It’s funny how a lot of people don’t understand not everyone wants to either be forced to buy two sets of tires/wheels (summer and winter) or doesn’t want to suffer the insane range hit the PS4S tires cause vs. the standard Conti or MXM4 rubber. I do not track my car, ever. I drive it hard when I’m on twisty two lane roads, but the majority of my time is spent going 80MPH on an interstate. The PS4S may hold the title for the highest grip, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best tire for everyone with this car. There’s a reason Mazda doesn’t put the grippiest tire on most of their cars, yet every journalist rants and raves about how excellent Mazdas drive... somewhat less grippy tires and all. If lap times matter, stick with a summer tire. If you couldn’t care less and want a tire that may last longer and improve your range, there have got to be better options.
XLR82XS
D M C
Agreed. The car handles well already and for daily driver duties I'm looking into Conti Purecontact LS or Bridgestone QuietTrack.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
To me it has nothing to do with handling.
It has to do with the car being able to stop dozens of feet shorter in an emergency stop so I don't hit whatever's stopped in front of me.
From 60 mph the PS4s stops in roughly 100 feet.
The MXM4s that come stock on the 18s take over 130 feet.
The Contis that come stock on the 19s are somewhere in the 120s.
Increase speed above 60 and it gets even worse for stopping distance.
(plus you're overestimating the range hit)
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Not sure where you're getting the 20% impact on Range number from? In terms of the revised EPA testing, cars with Aero 18 inch wheels and MXM typically are rated at 322, while the performance will set up with the Pilot Sport 4S tires is rated at 299 - this is 23 miles, which works out to just a touch over 8% gain. As for the disinformation that everything sticks to the Tire in terms of rocks and that it hurts your range drastically, these frankly are disinformation statements. They are not based in the facts. If you want to see a tire that actually picks up debris get a pair of Bridgestone RE71s. They will throw rocks at your car so to speak, but PS4s are pretty good in that regard. I just have to ask have you in fact ever owned a pair of these tires on the car? Cuz it seems like you have a lot of ideas that are not factual.
DarkNightP3D
Member
obviously I’ve owned a set of these tires... I have said I am trying to replace them with something other than the PS4S. Have you put many miles on your car? I’ve done 26K miles in 10 months... they’ve been rotated every 7500 miles. They’re worn out at 26K miles of mainly highway driving. Our other 3 LR AWD on MXM4 tires barely has worn those tires down at all, and it’s got 24K miles.
The 20% figure is the REAL WORLD impact on range. We have two LR AWD Model 3s. One with MXM4 tires and one “Performance” with PS4S tires. At 70mph, the Performance 3 on PS4S tires uses 20% more energy than the LR AWD 3 on 18” MXM4 tires. There’s a huge difference in rolling resistance between the super sticky summer tires and the eco-focused all-season tires used on the 18” and 19” wheels. BTW, the revised EPA-rating is a joke at 299mi for the Performance 3. You couldn’t come close to hitting that with the PS4S tires unless you had perfect weather (sunny, no rain, no headwind) and flat terrain and a very slow speed limit (under 50mph). At 70-80MPH I struggle to get much over 200-220 (at most) miles in my P3D+, whereas the LR AWD on the MXM4 tires will come much closer to 300 miles per charge at highway speeds.
Regarding your “disinformation” claims... it’s funny you say that the tires don’t stick to everything on the road when they certainly do. If I drive my P3D down any road you constantly hear little sand and rock debris pelting the side and underbody of the car. It’s no reason my car has a million paint chips (poor paint quality + tires that pick up every single little granule in the road = substantial paint defects). Even just looking at my car’s tires when parked you see tons of small rock/sand kernels literally stuck to the tire. It really reminds me of a freshly fried donut that’s rolled in cinnamon sugar. Everything sticks to it. Compare that to the much harder compound on the MXM4 tires. They don’t act like a magnet picking up every little thing in the roadway.
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