I'm sitting in my car now, waiting for a lap, looking at my CAn datalogger, and track mode hasn't peaked above 4kW of energy draw. I don't think it really does 11kW of cooling.
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Track Mode Set Up
- Thread starter comanchepilot
- Start date
correct, you can call it essentially brake torque vectoring since there's no diff on each axle. This gives the ability for each wheel to get varying amounts of power, so the inside wheel gets braking applied and the outside wheel spins faster so the car can power out of a turn properly.
Google a search on torque vectoring for the model 3 i'm sure you'll come across a relevant article.
Lindenwood
Active Member
Great responses.
Some notes:
1) My first few days on a tight road course (max speeds around 105), the difference between Track mode and Chill mode was literally about 2%. Granted, this was on 200tw tires where the car would get scared before actually losing traction, but I was both surprised and impressed how fast the car could be on the most convervative settings.
2) Until you really know a read, I am not sure anything but front wheel slip is remotely safe. And this is coming from a guy who daily drives this..
3) Ultimately, track mode is actually very effective at the limit, but also very subtle until you hit said limit. People are used to 2003-era cars where “to get the best times you have to turn off traction control.” That is absolutely not the case with this car (or most any good sport-centric vehicle from the last few years).
Also. Tires first, then dampers, then alignment, stress about track mode settings! The car will severely understeer at the limit until you get super rear-biased in track mode (I.e. slowing your times).
But yes, I do occasionally play around with Drift Mode
.
Some notes:
1) My first few days on a tight road course (max speeds around 105), the difference between Track mode and Chill mode was literally about 2%. Granted, this was on 200tw tires where the car would get scared before actually losing traction, but I was both surprised and impressed how fast the car could be on the most convervative settings.
2) Until you really know a read, I am not sure anything but front wheel slip is remotely safe. And this is coming from a guy who daily drives this..
3) Ultimately, track mode is actually very effective at the limit, but also very subtle until you hit said limit. People are used to 2003-era cars where “to get the best times you have to turn off traction control.” That is absolutely not the case with this car (or most any good sport-centric vehicle from the last few years).
Also. Tires first, then dampers, then alignment, stress about track mode settings! The car will severely understeer at the limit until you get super rear-biased in track mode (I.e. slowing your times).
But yes, I do occasionally play around with Drift Mode
.I did this. I found nothing. This one's gonna be on you to prove. You're going to be going against Tesla's own description of Track Mode in the Plaid:, which actually does have torque vectoring on the rear axle:
gearchruncher, did you read my post? We proved beyond any debate that the MYP has EDL. The video makes it crystal clear that the car is not following the steering wheel.
I wouldn't call it torque vectoring either, it's just a virtual limited slip differential.
Please note that I said “11 KW” not 11 KWh. KW is a rate. It doesn’t maintain that rate for long but it will indeed hit that rate if you monitor it through OBDII.
What year is your car? Does it have the heat pump?
Here it is pulling 12 KW while “preconditioning” in park. I haven’t done Track mode in awhile so I am still trying to find the picture from that.
I couldn’t find the 11 KW picture right away. I will keep looking.
Here is 8 KW while in Track Mode in Park though. The S3XY buttons could be reporting it inaccurately. I acknowledge that is possible. However, I have seen 11 KW briefly while in Track Mode and in Park.
They had a bug where it wouldn’t show Track Mode in the picture but I took a picture of the Tesla screen right before I did the screenshot of the power draw.
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I didn't say anything about the Plaid - I'm talking about what's in the model 3 (track mode), the Plaid uses as you quoted uses the independent motors to control torque bias between the left and right rear wheels - which is ideal instead of using just the brakes.
Some good background on torque vectoring:
What is Torque Vectoring in a Car?
here’s a couple sources that I owe you… with direct quotes:
Tesla Model 3 Performance Gets Better and Better | Optiwatt
‘The Tesla Model 3 Performance is the first Tesla to include a Track mode that improves cooling and regenerative braking, torque vectoring, and relaxed stability control.’
Tesla's Track Mode: What does it do, exactly?
‘Tesla is also using brake torque vectoring (video) to mitigate some of the handling deficiencies caused by the car's open differential.’
Fancy your Tesla Model 3 with a limited-slip diff?
‘The Model 3 Performance of course has Track Mode which activates an electronic torque vectoring system’
Can somebody please explain to me how Tesla AWD works? Thank you.
quote from our illustrious ‘MasterC17’ :
‘The Model 3 has a mechanically open differential, but it can be manipulated with software (torque vectoring, think "e-diff").’
That's very informative thanks and sorry that I read too fast and mistakenly thought you meant 11kWh instead of KW - I usually associate power draw in kWh (for a timeframe).
So about 2-3kWh (from your readings above) assuming running 15min of track mode with the car parked which is about 2-4% consumption on the display. I think that's definitely possible but overall I think it's negligible considering what benefits you gain when you jump on the track for 20min with a precooled battery.
The only adjustment you can make on a stock car is toe and the recommended toe settings are perfectly fine. Unless you like running a bunch of toe out and replacing your tires every couple thousand miles.
Fascinating that the only place we can find that claims a same axle e-diff exists is CNET of all places. Everyplace else is talking about front-rear, which sort of exists, but you are talking about on the same axle. You'd think Tesla would shout it from the hilltops if they had torque vectoring, given how many ICE cars are now doing it with very trick diffs.
@MasterC17 - What's your evidence that the car e-diffs? I've never felt it, and the CSV logs don't show any brake pressure coming online when wheel slip is detected.
Lindenwood
Active Member
I suspect there are conversational chasms we don’t realize exist between two very different sectors of brake-based handling enhancement:
1) Braking a spinning wheel: I fully suspect (and have experienced) Tesla’s traction control systems will brake a spinning wheel during near-straight acceleration. These systems are extremely sensitive and effective.
However…
2) Applying independent brake forces to align vehicle yaw with steering angle……………….. what evidence do we have of this?
1) Braking a spinning wheel: I fully suspect (and have experienced) Tesla’s traction control systems will brake a spinning wheel during near-straight acceleration. These systems are extremely sensitive and effective.
However…
2) Applying independent brake forces to align vehicle yaw with steering angle……………….. what evidence do we have of this?
React to your post, catch some silly retaliation post. K.
enjoy your night duder.Track Junkies and Track Mode experts,
I recently enabled Track Mode to watch what cooling impact it does to a hot battery during a drive in Vegas heat. Amazing how it gets the battery loop down to 25C to cool the battery from 40C. I may enable this in the peak summer to cool battery.
However, I noticed that when accelerating from a stop, the pedal calibration in the less than 20mph regime feels sluggish. I had a preset that was 50/50, 100% regen and traction control -9. When I switched to one of the default “Drift Preset” it didnt have that effect anymore.
Thoughts? Explanations?
I recently enabled Track Mode to watch what cooling impact it does to a hot battery during a drive in Vegas heat. Amazing how it gets the battery loop down to 25C to cool the battery from 40C. I may enable this in the peak summer to cool battery.
However, I noticed that when accelerating from a stop, the pedal calibration in the less than 20mph regime feels sluggish. I had a preset that was 50/50, 100% regen and traction control -9. When I switched to one of the default “Drift Preset” it didnt have that effect anymore.
Thoughts? Explanations?
Why are you worried about a warm battery? The car heats the battery on purpose in order to charge it and lithium batteries are more efficient at higher temps.
Never noticed this, However, track mode is meant for, well, tracks, and 0-20 MPH is irrelevant. I have noticed that I seem to get more traction control intervention at low speeds in track mode, so it may actually be that it pours down more power, which causes wheel slip, which causes backoff.
I live in the desert. In the summer the pack gets in the 40Cs and anything I can do stay on a lower calendar aging curve during the period is something I see in the direction of goodness for my personal Tesla use case. If I can sink all that heat out to outside air before parking in a hot garage for 12 hours, why not?
I am going to experiment with different settings and see what settings sensitivity impacts my normal around town driving and pedal feel. My pedal almost feels like Chill Mode that first casual non spirited acceleration 0-20mph. Track Mode to me may mean my Cooling Mode thermal management system for peak summer months.
Lindenwood
Active Member
I am not sure the extra 7kw draw on the battery to run the AC at full blast to cool the battery is going to be much better.
Track Mode makes the throttle more linear to create more predictable throttle response. Especially at low speeds this probably feels “sluggish” since you need more pedal input to achieve the same torque values. 100% pedal still achieves 100% available torque; however, hypothetically 50% pedal in “Sport” mode might give 75% torque, versus 50%=~50% in track mode.
Unless you are doing this while plugged into a charger, you're beating up the battery to preserve the battery. You'll do more to limit battery wear by keeping your SoC low.
Also, do the math. How much cooler can you actually make the average battery temp over the summer? Hitting the battery with 5kW of cooling for 30 minutes is not going to make much difference in the average temp over 24 hours. Plus you have to factor in the energy cost of doing this- 2.5kWh of electricity is 50 cents. Do you really reduce battery wear enough to make this a cost and environmentally smart thing to do?
This would need a really detailed analysis to prove out.
Thank you for the comment.
I will have to run some data and understand power draw profiles but really discharge rate (C-rate) is not my concern. I couldve also drove the speed limit from Vegas to LA today but Im sure I pulled an 7kw extra by driving 90mph. This isnt the battery thread, so I wont get into details but main degradation driver is calendar aging time @ temperature vs discharge rate (C-rate) on battery.
Ive watched it try to cool and since Im not pouncing at the track, the cooling power thus far is minimal. Watching 700RPM on the heat pump and it cycles on/off. The thermal management system is also in parallel mode and mainly cooling battery loop since the inverters/motors on the motor loops are seeing normal usage with me driving around town.
Thanks for the accelerator pedal calibration explanation. Makes sense and glad I wasnt dreaming. My young and free track days are over but good to know my human-machine senses are still spot on.
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