Trying to see if our CPO Roadster ideal mile range loss/CAC value decrease is real...

[Kevin Sharpe]

Unfortunately, it looks as if things are going to get ugly with Tesla :crying:

The official response to the logs (above) is;

"With regards to the battery information you have provided, there is clearly some degradation occurring within the pack. However we have checked and fundamentally there is no fault within the battery. The reduction in range you are experiencing is related to this, however with the mileage you have covered in the Roadster this is to be expected.

Under this scenario we cannot justify changing the battery pack under warranty as currently the battery is still operational, and only shows natural degradation."

I have reminded them that brick 8 has been flagged to them before and requested a director level review...

timestamp, brickahmin, brickahave, bricknumber
12/02/2011 15:11:20, 146.85, 149.07, 8
12/03/2011 18:08:53, 146.85, 149.07, 8
12/04/2011 20:26:32, 147.31, 149.47, 8
12/06/2011 00:01:57, 147.31, 149.47, 8
12/07/2011 00:01:56, 147.31, 149.47, 8
12/08/2011 00:01:56, 147.53, 149.87, 8
12/09/2011 00:01:56, 147.53, 149.87, 8
12/10/2011 19:31:51, 147.70, 150.27, 8
12/11/2011 19:31:51, 147.70, 150.27, 8
12/12/2011 20:54:11, 148.10, 150.73, 8
12/13/2011 22:41:19, 148.10, 150.73, 8
12/14/2011 22:41:18, 147.82, 150.56, 8
12/15/2011 22:41:18, 147.82, 150.56, 8
12/16/2011 22:41:17, 147.82, 150.56, 8
12/17/2011 22:41:17, 147.82, 150.56, 8
12/18/2011 22:41:16, 147.82, 150.56, 8
12/19/2011 22:41:16, 147.82, 150.56, 8
12/20/2011 22:41:15, 147.88, 150.61, 8
12/21/2011 22:41:15, 147.93, 150.61, 8
12/22/2011 22:41:14, 147.93, 150.61, 8
12/23/2011 22:41:14, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/24/2011 22:41:13, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/25/2011 22:41:13, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/26/2011 22:41:13, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/27/2011 22:41:13, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/28/2011 22:41:12, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/29/2011 22:41:11, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/30/2011 22:41:11, 148.22, 150.84, 8
12/31/2011 22:41:11, 148.22, 150.84, 8
01/01/2012 22:41:11, 148.22, 150.84, 8
01/02/2012 22:41:12, 148.22, 150.84, 8
01/03/2012 22:41:12, 148.22, 150.84, 8
01/04/2012 22:41:10, 148.22, 150.84, 8
01/05/2012 22:41:11, 148.45, 151.18, 8
01/07/2012 00:19:02, 148.45, 151.18, 8
01/08/2012 00:19:01, 148.16, 150.50, 8
01/09/2012 04:43:17, 148.33, 150.56, 8
01/10/2012 14:45:38, 148.67, 151.13, 8
01/11/2012 14:45:38, 148.79, 151.41, 8
01/12/2012 14:45:38, 148.79, 151.41, 8
01/13/2012 14:45:37, 148.79, 151.41, 8
01/14/2012 14:45:37, 148.79, 151.41, 8
01/15/2012 14:45:36, 148.79, 151.41, 8
01/16/2012 14:45:36, 148.79, 151.41, 8
01/17/2012 14:45:35, 148.90, 151.52, 8
01/18/2012 14:45:35, 149.02, 151.70, 8
01/19/2012 14:45:35, 149.02, 151.70, 8
01/20/2012 15:34:11, 149.02, 151.70, 8

 

[PV4EV]

Unfortunately, it looks as if things are going to get ugly with Tesla :crying:

The official response to the logs (above) is;

"With regards to the battery information you have provided, there is clearly some degradation occurring within the pack. However we have checked and fundamentally there is no fault within the battery. The reduction in range you are experiencing is related to this, however with the mileage you have covered in the Roadster this is to be expected.

Under this scenario we cannot justify changing the battery pack under warranty as currently the battery is still operational, and only shows natural degradation."

I have reminded them that brick 8 has been flagged to them before and requested a director level review...

timestamp, brickahmin, brickahave, bricknumber

12/02/2011 15:11:20, 146.85, 149.07, 8
01/20/2012 15:34:11, 149.02, 151.70, 8

I'm at 55,408 miles and my range and CAC has taken a dive during the last couple of months;


timestamp, brickahmin, brickahave, bricknumber
04/16/2013 11:01:56, 143.71, 147.36, 8
05/24/2014 08:24:05, 133.00, 139.15, 8
06/20/2014 19:02:27, 129.18, 135.33, 8



Tesla service reports "Completed a bleed scan. Battery is in good condition" and when reminded I paid £13,000 for the ESA's "Unfortunately we cannot go into further detail with regards to the condition of the battery itself".

The car has just had the 400V Controller replaced and is now waiting a new 12V battery bracket so it's still in the Tesla workshop (3 weeks and counting) :crying:

This cannot be right - one brick is down nearly 15%. How can that be 'battery is in good condition" ? Something stinks about this ..

I am piling on the miles so their response is deeply worrying and unlike you I did not purchase the extended battery warranty.

Surely if it continues to drop at the same rate they will have no choice but to remedy the situation shortly ?

 

[dpeilow]

Surprised at that drop. My CAC is 151 but surely that drop off in only one brick is indicative of a fault.

 

[Alexandersims]

From the logs, just to double check I understand them correctly, the number at the end of each line is saying which brick is the lowest right?
If that's the case then for my logs the minimum brick changes frequently... Surely with it having been on brick 8 for 3 years it has to have a fault?!!

 

[hcsharp]

Unfortunately, it looks as if things are going to get ugly with Tesla :crying:

The official response to the logs (above) is;

"With regards to the battery information you have provided, there is clearly some degradation occurring within the pack. However we have checked and fundamentally there is no fault within the battery. The reduction in range you are experiencing is related to this, however with the mileage you have covered in the Roadster this is to be expected.

Under this scenario we cannot justify changing the battery pack under warranty as currently the battery is still operational, and only shows natural degradation."

I have reminded them that brick 8 has been flagged to them before and requested a director level review...

A tech once told me that during one of his training sessions they were all told that the battery is not warrantied against range loss. They gave the class an example and said if you can turn on the car and back it out of the garage before the battery is dead, then technically there's no warranty issue. The instructor went on to say for that to happen, it's quite likely that there's a battery fault. They obviously need to do more testing to find out what's wrong. The bleed test only looks for one type of problem.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

This is now bouncing around at director level in Europe... Tesla are looking again at the logs and I'll try to get a definitive statement on what the battery warranty covers exactly... I suggest everyone keeps logs on a regular basis because that might be critical in future :crying:

 

[augkuo]

#783 had a similar problem but it was at a much faster rate - some of the cells were damaged in one sheet from road debris so you probably have some bad cells in brick 8.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Tesla have had my car four weeks today. They are still reviewing the data I sent so I have no idea whether the battery is covered by the extended warranty or how long it will take to get the car back. I'm leaving for a US trip this week so will leave it with them for the next five weeks.

 

[spaceballs]

#783 had a similar problem but it was at a much faster rate - some of the cells were damaged in one sheet from road debris so you probably have some bad cells in brick 8.

#783 had one cell that accidentally somehow looped a washer on the fusible wires to it, enough car movement would have worn the wire enough to break and the washer could have fallen and shorted something out. Even if it didn't short anything out, it would result in the loss of the brick capacity due to bad QA.

 

[augkuo]

wow that's scary! Did you take a picture of that?

#783 had one cell that accidentally somehow looped a washer on the fusible wires to it, enough car movement would have worn the wire enough to break and the washer could have fallen and shorted something out. Even if it didn't short anything out, it would result in the loss of the brick capacity due to bad QA.

 

[spaceballs]

wow that's scary! Did you take a picture of that?

Yeah I got pictures (I sent you email), the video I have somewhere shows an close up of it.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Received from Tesla “senior manager of engineering” after having my car for 8 weeks…

“We are responding to your questions about the condition of your lithium-ion battery for your Roadster. After a review of your vehicle’s historical log file and diagnostic data, we have determined that there has been no abnormal degradation with respect to your vehicle’s battery and that it is operating within normal operating parameters.

The battery pack design is a collection of batteries (“bricks”) tied together in series and they each retain capacity at varying rates. When we evaluate the rate of capacity retention for the battery pack, we are actually evaluating each brick individually and focus our attention on the lowest capacity brick. From one date to the next, we expect to find the same brick location identified as the lowest capacity brick. For your vehicle, we have evaluated the capacity retention of pack, focusing on the brick in question (referenced as #8) and found it to be operating within expectations.”

 

[Perrin21]

Maybe you should politely remind them of the work you have put into creating a robust charging network in the UK for their cars to use.

 

[Paul Churchley]

This story of Kevin Sharpe's warranty issues leave me with a really nasty taste in my mouth. I have always believed Tesla to be the very best example of how to treat customers. OK, I don't have a Tesla myself (I have a Nissan Leaf) but I know enough Tesla owners personally to have formed that opinion based on what I have been told by them. In fact, I have been so impressed that I have recently applied to work for them here in the UK. I was not successful in that application but then again I am not too surprised given my experience. However, this situation with Kevin has rather tainted my opinion of Tesla all round.

I do think it ironic that the very person they are denying is Kevin Sharpe, who has probably done more in the UK IMO to promote and support Tesla that any other individual. That in itself should make no difference to whether they honour their warranty or not but IMO they could not have done this to anyone more deserving of their support. Grrrr!

 

[Mark77a]

This story of Kevin Sharpe's warranty issues leave me with a really nasty taste in my mouth. I have always believed Tesla to be the very best example of how to treat customers. OK, I don't have a Tesla myself (I have a Nissan Leaf) but I know enough Tesla owners personally to have formed that opinion based on what I have been told by them. In fact, I have been so impressed that I have recently applied to work for them here in the UK. I was not successful in that application but then again I am not too surprised given my experience. However, this situation with Kevin has rather tainted my opinion of Tesla all round.

I do think it ironic that the very person they are denying is Kevin Sharpe, who has probably done more in the UK IMO to promote and support Tesla that any other individual. That in itself should make no difference to whether they honour their warranty or not but IMO they could not have done this to anyone more deserving of their support. Grrrr!

I totally agree and have added a few comments on another thread. Model S gets extension of warranty for 8 Years to Drive Units and Roadster ignored
However I am wondering after reading THIS post if in the UK Tesla are simply overrun with Model S to do anything for Roadster owners

Quote: "It's already running over-capacity - the whole place is just abuzz with activity. There were 5 (yes, five) car transporters parked around the building, each unloading cars that had come across from Tilburg. There are so many cars there there's no room to park. I was told that 27 cars were being handed over to owners that day alone."

"They are having real trouble providing owners with Model S courtesy cars while they're having work done, because as soon as they get a loaner car in someone immediately asks to buy it!"

So, if UK roadster owners are 'planning' on anything going wrong, best cancel that problem until The model S rush is over

 

[hcsharp]

I totally agree and have added a few comments on another thread. Model S gets extension of warranty for 8 Years to Drive Units and Roadster ignored
However I am wondering after reading THIS post if in the UK Tesla are simply overrun with Model S to do anything for Roadster owners

Quote: "It's already running over-capacity - the whole place is just abuzz with activity. There were 5 (yes, five) car transporters parked around the building, each unloading cars that had come across from Tilburg. There are so many cars there there's no room to park. I was told that 27 cars were being handed over to owners that day alone."

"They are having real trouble providing owners with Model S courtesy cars while they're having work done, because as soon as they get a loaner car in someone immediately asks to buy it!"

So, if UK roadster owners are 'planning' on anything going wrong, best cancel that problem until The model S rush is over

Sounds like a repeat of what happened in the States.

 

[Perrin21]

Im watching this to see if Tesla step up and do anything. I suspect they are doing nothing because it would set a precedent for all vehicles if they did. They need to cover capacity loss within reason to stop extremes like this from causing loss of consumer confidence. Almost all manufacturers in the EV segment have 8 year warranties on their battery tech (excluding Nissan) and the Roadster should be extended to the same by Tesla.

 

[AEdennis]

Im watching this to see if Tesla step up and do anything. I suspect they are doing nothing because it would set a precedent for all vehicles if they did. They need to cover capacity loss within reason to stop extremes like this from causing loss of consumer confidence. Almost all manufacturers in the EV segment have 8 year warranties on their battery tech (excluding Nissan) and the Roadster should be extended to the same by Tesla.

I think more disconcerting in this current issue with Kevin Sharpe is the fact that he did, in fact, purchase the necessary warranties. It seems to that pack 8 has been a problem and Tesla says that this is "normal" behavior. That's the part that bugs me. I have a CPO Warranty (one year today) and I'd like to make sure that stuff gets taken care of in my wife's Roadster when problems creep in. Looks like a 11-13 mile loss of range since we got it one year ago today.

 

[supersnoop]

Does anyone have a copy of the actual CPO or battery warranty? I'd be interested to see what caveats and stipulations are actually in the legal documents. The website doesn't list and limits or exceptions.

 

[sethr]

My CPO Roadster had its original warranty guide with it. (I never got any paperwork specifically for the CPO warranty, though.) Since both are "bumper to bumper" warranties, one would hope the same conditions apply. As far as the exclusions on the battery warranty, the warranty guide lists "overuse" such as "off road driving, competition, racing and autocross", "using the vehicle as a stationary power source", "exposing an unplugged vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120°F for over 24 hours", "storing an unplugged vehicle in temperatures below -20°F for over seven days", "leaving unplugged when the battery reaches a zero or near-zero state of charge", "physically damaging or intentionally attempting to reduce the life of the battery", "exposing the battery to contact with a direct flame", "immersing the battery in water or fluids", "opening the battery enclosure or having it serviced by someone other than a certified Tesla Motors technician", and "neglecting to follow correct charging procedures". Gotta say - "contact with a direct flame"? Really? Who thinks up such things?