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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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You didn't address one item. Selling options.

This week, about a dozen of my options (TSLA, et al.) expired worthless. But I was the seller in each case...
Agree. I sold some $325 puts last week and they were up a ton Monday. Even though the stock tanked after that I was still able to buy them back before close Friday for a small profit. Sold some more $325 for next week. Worst case is I buy shares for $315ish.
 
Well, there are several things I'm keeping an eye on to try to predict the stock movement. One is the VIN registrations. I've been keeping an eye on that but it's been stagnant for quite a while, yet the stock has continued its up and down pattern. It looks like there are suggestions of a jump in production recently. If the suggestions grow stronger then I think we have a catalyst for the stock to climb again soon. It has been doing that regularly on rumors/anticipation of ramp progress even though in hindsight there really wasn't much progress. What seems to happen is the market anticipates ramp progression, positive sentiment develops, and the stock goes up. It often goes up 10%+, and then the market realizes there is no clear indication of ramp progress, so the stock goes back down. Sentiment turns overly negative, as it is now, and the stock often goes down 8%+. The market then realizes the ramp is going to likely progress soon, and resorts to buying the stock again (with shorts covering.) This is why the stock will likely climb again very soon even in the absence of good news.

The stock pattern over the last year has been consistent enough that I am primarily using it as a means of altering my leverage, trying to keep emotions and reactive guessing out of my trades as much as possible. I have to admit that I expected a reversal on Friday into close, with quite possibly a green candle. The dip near close surprised me. If it was an unusual afternoon due to manipulations resulting from Triple Witching day, then I would expect the coming week to be solidly green, following the usual pattern. The stock often likes to reverse after being pushed down well below a support level, and when it reverses it often does so dramatically. I thought we would see that on Friday, but instead we got a wishy-washy red day again because of the afternoon drop.

So, where do we go from here? I believe the bottom is near in terms of trading days but not necessarily in terms of the share price. I'm an amateur with technicals, so keep that in mind, but I do like to consider them. The stock has held up well at $321 but that keeps getting tested. Assuming no positive news this weekend, I think it will get tested again and may very well fail. Shorts continue to have success lately. Once it fails, stops would get triggered and the stock may drop a surprising amount. The moving averages are above us, so not there for support. The lower bollinger band historically can be violated dramatically but only for a day or 2. Even if the stock would somehow plunge to $300 or below, it is very likely to pop back up to the lower bollinger band, which would probably be around $310 or so at that point. I think it would be very likely to then rise or consolidate for a few days around that level. So, if we don't go up from here then I think we could find ourselves around $310 over the next few trading days based upon the chart. I'm going to continue this in another post since it's getting long.

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I agree with your overall assessment. I don’t see us going below 300 just yet, at least not before numbers are released. If bottlenecks remain a longer term issue then we may remain range bound for some time. If the exit rate is 1,700 or less, I would consider that to be bearish.

The short term right now isn’t in our favor, there’s just too many “what if’s” to be betting on this Q. The previous months reminds me of Model X price action days, where the market continually kept Tesla trading below a range, with every quarterly miss, the stock tanked and kept us below an even lower-range for sometime we’ve seen $359 being the high end, now $350 is the top, $330 maybe the next top... Although I don’t think we’ll be kept below this point for long, I want to capitalize on the short term one last time before going all in and staying long for good.

Seeing how much the market punished Tesla in the previous miss gave me some courage to derisk 30% of my position. With only two weeks to go and no drone pictures of full parking lots, im inclined to think the ramp isn’t happening this quarter. Even if it does, delivery numbers for M3 will be abysmal compared to what the market is expecting. 7000-8000 is not good enough to propel us into rally mode, I was expecting more of 12,000 minimum for this quarter.

With Feds meeting next week on the 20-21st, I’m thinking the market will drop. Just a hunch.
 
LoL, I basically wrote everything I know. I have not gotten to selling options yet, but I'm very intrigued.
One consideration re: selling is that you have a recovery potential when things don't go the way you planned.

Case in point: I sold March 23 $340 Puts for $19/sh a while back. They closed Friday at about $20, so I'm down a buck. I can trade them for the March 29 @ $21.50, adding money to my account. If the stock stays down, this approach can continue week after week. Since I assume the stock price will recover, I should eventually be a winner on the transactions.

Buying provides no similar recover potential.
 
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The date isn't the problem. They expire in Jan 2019. The problem is the amount of margin you have to have in your account to back them up is around 3 times what they are worth, and what they are "worth" increases every time the stock price goes down. I sold a lot of Puts, so I need a lot of money to back them up, even if their strike price is 220 or 250.

Buy some 150s and your margin requirements should go down substantially.
 
One consideration re: selling is that you have a recovery potential when things don't go the way you planned.

Case in point: I sold March 23 $340 Puts for $19/sh a while back. They closed Friday at about $20, so I'm down a buck. I can trade them for the March 29 @ $21.50, adding money to my account. If the stock stays down, this approach can continue week after week. Since I assume the stock price will recover, I should eventually be a winner on the transactions.

Buying provides no similar recover potential.

Yeah, I totally understand how it works technically. That's the easy part. The hard part is know what and when. I'm sure I'll get there at some point.
 
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I agree with your overall assessment. I don’t see us going below 300 just yet, at least not before numbers are released. If bottlenecks remain a longer term issue then we may remain range bound for some time. If the exit rate is 1,700 or less, I would consider that to be bearish.

The short term right now isn’t in our favor, there’s just too many “what if’s” to be betting on this Q. The previous months reminds me of Model X price action days, where the market continually kept Tesla trading below a range, with every quarterly miss, the stock tanked and kept us below an even lower-range for sometime we’ve seen $359 being the high end, now $350 is the top, $330 maybe the next top... Although I don’t think we’ll be kept below this point for long, I want to capitalize on the short term one last time before going all in and staying long for good.

Seeing how much the market punished Tesla in the previous miss gave me some courage to derisk 30% of my position. With only two weeks to go and no drone pictures of full parking lots, im inclined to think the ramp isn’t happening this quarter. Even if it does, delivery numbers for M3 will be abysmal compared to what the market is expecting. 7000-8000 is not good enough to propel us into rally mode, I was expecting more of 12,000 minimum for this quarter.

With Feds meeting next week on the 20-21st, I’m thinking the market will drop. Just a hunch.
I'd be surprised if they raised rates, though I defer to Tim Duy on this. Seems Trump is flayling about which should be a market depressor. When he gets rid of Mattis head for the door.
 
I agree with your overall assessment. I don’t see us going below 300 just yet, at least not before numbers are released. If bottlenecks remain a longer term issue then we may remain range bound for some time. If the exit rate is 1,700 or less, I would consider that to be bearish.

The short term right now isn’t in our favor, there’s just too many “what if’s” to be betting on this Q. The previous months reminds me of Model X price action days, where the market continually kept Tesla trading below a range, with every quarterly miss, the stock tanked and kept us below an even lower-range for sometime we’ve seen $359 being the high end, now $350 is the top, $330 maybe the next top... Although I don’t think we’ll be kept below this point for long, I want to capitalize on the short term one last time before going all in and staying long for good.

Seeing how much the market punished Tesla in the previous miss gave me some courage to derisk 30% of my position. With only two weeks to go and no drone pictures of full parking lots, im inclined to think the ramp isn’t happening this quarter. Even if it does, delivery numbers for M3 will be abysmal compared to what the market is expecting. 7000-8000 is not good enough to propel us into rally mode, I was expecting more of 12,000 minimum for this quarter.

With Feds meeting next week on the 20-21st, I’m thinking the market will drop. Just a hunch.
The other thing to keep in mind though is that if the stock keeps dropping until the Q1 ER, it could find relief just by getting the information out. There may also be very good news about the Grohmann line as well. I just wouldn't necessarily expect a big drop if it has already dropped 10%+ leading up to the end of Q1, regardless of the numbers.
 
One consideration re: selling is that you have a recovery potential when things don't go the way you planned.

Case in point: I sold March 23 $340 Puts for $19/sh a while back. They closed Friday at about $20, so I'm down a buck. I can trade them for the March 29 @ $21.50, adding money to my account. If the stock stays down, this approach can continue week after week. Since I assume the stock price will recover, I should eventually be a winner on the transactions.

Buying provides no similar recover potential.
I tend to do something similar with calls actually. If I'm in LEAPs and we go down further, I'll sell those and buy nearer term calls. Like you, since I assume the stock will climb again before long, I will keep trading for that outcome on the way down, trying to make sure I gain more on the way up than I lost on the way down. The big risk is the very rare huge dip after a 10-15% drop because at that point I will be very highly leveraged. That happened in 2015/16 when the stock fell 50% at one point. However, even with that brutal drop, maintaining the same approach of increasing leverage worked very well. The stock recovered but it took about 2 months.
 
The other thing to keep in mind though is that if the stock keeps dropping until the Q1 ER, it could find relief just by getting the information out. There may also be very good news about the Grohmann line as well. I just wouldn't necessarily expect a big drop if it has already dropped 10%+ leading up to the end of Q1, regardless of the numbers.

This is a good point. Most of the discussion on TMC is about whether or not Tesla can hit the right number by the end of the quarter. However, another possibility is that they might miss, but give a confident very short-term prediction like "having successfully increasing production over the last few weeks, tested with burst production at much higher rates, and installed the Grohmann line, we are confident that we will achieve a sustained production rate of 2500/week within the first two weeks of Q2".

Another thing to consider - is a Q1 miss a big deal if they have some explanation and give convincing evidence that they are still on track for 5000/week by the end of Q2? Of course that deadline might slip too, but not necessarily.
 
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This is a good point. Most of the discussion on TMC is about whether or not Tesla can hit the right number by the end of the quarter. However, another possibility is that they might miss, but give a confident very short-term prediction like "having successfully increasing production over the last few weeks, tested with burst production at much higher rates, and installed the Grohmann line, we are confident that we will achieve a sustained production rate of 2500/week within the first two weeks of Q2".

Another thing to consider - is a Q1 miss a big deal if they have some explanation and give convincing evidence that they are still on track for 5000/week by the end of Q2? Of course that deadline might slip too, but not necessarily.


I don't think Grohmann line is to get to 2500 though.
 
I don't think Grohmann line is to get to 2500 though.
The ghromann line is to get to 5k and another couple to get to 10k. Machines like this don't just show up and run at full speed. They need to be turned, tweaked and tested to make sure. They basically said that in the cc, that it will be installed sometime in March then ramp to 2500/w. But the semi automatic equipment necessary for 2500/w was supposedly already at the gigafactory at the time of the cc. Thus the new line is more about getting to 5K while they build the next machine to replace the semi automatic lines.

My guess is that the shut down was to deal with the other bottleneck.. The conveyance system. It's hard to build cars fast when parts don't show up at the right stations on time. They clearly stated this was a bottleneck and to be it seems like it would be as big as issue as the packs, but should be easier to solve because it's not something they invented from scratch 6 months ago. It's a solution from a company, though I'm sure it's been customized to Tesla's needs. Mainly turned up to 11 on the speed dial.

I'm just groping around in the dark for clues that the ramp has accelerated. Not seeing it yet. Must see it by next week to really make any good decisions.
 
This is a good point. Most of the discussion on TMC is about whether or not Tesla can hit the right number by the end of the quarter. However, another possibility is that they might miss, but give a confident very short-term prediction like "having successfully increasing production over the last few weeks, tested with burst production at much higher rates, and installed the Grohmann line, we are confident that we will achieve a sustained production rate of 2500/week within the first two weeks of Q2".

Another thing to consider - is a Q1 miss a big deal if they have some explanation and give convincing evidence that they are still on track for 5000/week by the end of Q2? Of course that deadline might slip too, but not necessarily.

Anyone who thinks pushing 2500/w it's not a big deal is drinking too much koolaid. It's a bonefied catastrophy after being pushed twice. What's worse is that I think the case can be made that there hadn't been any improvement in production speed this quarter. It's less about missing 2500 and more about the lack of real tangible improvements. To me 2000+ would be acceptable as it would confirm real improvements. Less is bad. Very bad. Short term. Long term, I don't care much. They will get there and there are small benefits to actually being late. Like fed tax credits.

Short term, it's a great buying opportunity.
 
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Lets forget the M3 production numbers and talk about earnings...

Easy to calculate that even @5,000 M3 / week they won‘t break even.

Tesla will not be profitable for decades and no one cares as long as they growing at 50%+ per year. You either don't care or don't understand what makes a company valuable. Growth could and should probably be closer to 100% a year. People will pay for growth, just ask bezos.
 
Tesla will not be profitable for decades and no one cares as long as they growing at 50%+ per year. You either don't care or don't understand what makes a company valuable. Growth could and should probably be closer to 100% a year. People will pay for growth, just ask bezos.


Yes but Tesla needs to be able to operate when investor money dries up. As long as it is not profitable, it's not self sufficient. And I don't like being dependent on external sources.
When a recession hits, and that investors prefer to keep money to themselves, it's getting tough.
 
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