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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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Cars barely put a dent on our roads, most of the damage is done by trucks

Tanker trucks are heavy because 9000 gallons of gas is heavy. Keep taxing gas & diesel because it travels the road twice. Let EV’s offset their road maintenance costs with clean air.

No taxation on electrification! Give me renewable energy or give me death! :)
 
I think it is more likely that Ford would put some of its small and mid sized cars outside of NA on VW's platform. Possibly even MEB for future EVs. I don't think Ford has a compelling EV roadmap (or any) right now and if they scrap everything but the trucks, their future European lien-up will now be alone, having to invest in new platforms, architectures, engines for a relatively low volume business. It's Opel all over again. Probably with the same outcome down the line.

Ford in North America has subcompact,compact, and midsize CUVs which are car like unibody platforms.

And they are not scrapping small sedans and hatchbacks in Latin America nor Asia-Pacific in addition to Europe.

It would be interesting if Ford used MEB and VW started selling F150/Ranger based vehicles in North America. Maybe Ranger based vehicles world wide.
 
Oracle's Larry Ellison Discloses Tesla Stake, Sees ‘A Lot of Upside’

perhaps some after effect of the calls Tesla/Elon we’re putting out to try to assemble a go private group of investors.

Larry Ellison has 50~60 billion dollars in ORCL. Last time I checked, he borrowed 10 billion dollars against his ORCL shares to invest. So if he says Tesla is his second largest holding, that's essentially his largest position besides ORCL. He could comfortably buy 20% of TSLA without much worry. Imagine what he has been doing every time TSLA goes lower.
 
Or Musk could let the Q3 results go to his head and show up at a press conference in a toga and laurel wreath and appoint a horse to head the board. ;)
I thought you have already used up your 1 (one) credit of "being immature" per year. Go wait until January and get the old Karen back! :p
 
My current favorite choices for chairman are:
Larry Ellison
Al Gore
Reid Hoffman
Maybe Marc Benioff

Richard Branson would me ok as well but I think he’s too busy running his own thing.

That list looks good to me although I would prefer Ellison, Benioff or Hoffman over Gore for the Chair (Gore as independent director could be good). Branson may be out of the running due to Tesla/SpaceX connection and Branson competing with SpaceX on rockets.
 
Funny what they say in public, when they're also part of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers which is lobbying to kill the CARB ZEV mandate (and successfully lobbied to rollback EPA standards).

But GM doesn't control the Alliance of Automobile Manufactures.

Maybe they are playing a two faced games or maybe they disagree with the majority of AAM.

GM may see a national ZEV mandate as a net positive for their competitive advantage vs Ford/FCA and to a lesser extent their less direct competitors.
 
VW CEO Diess, yesterday in a talk show: "We will arrive In 2010 with vehicles that can do everything like Tesla but are half the costs."
Aha. So now even the head of VW is dropping acid?

Anyway, could you share with us what year he really said? Am still catching up on the overnight posts.
 
Oracle's Larry Ellison Discloses Tesla Stake, Sees ‘A Lot of Upside’

perhaps some after effect of the calls Tesla/Elon we’re putting out to try to assemble a go private group of investors.

I like that one:

“This guy is landing rockets,” Ellison said. “You know, he’s landing rockets on robot drone rafts in the ocean. And you’re saying he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Well, who else is landing rockets? You ever land a rocket on a robot drone? Who are you?”
 
Wow a sharp vertical drop there. Attempt at morning dip ?

ARK Invest has regularly been selling some of its TSLA shares at about this time each morning. TSLA is the top holding at about 10% in three of its ETFs (ARKK, ARKQ & ARKW). Their prospectuses require that no stock comprise more than 10% of an ETF for more than a few days. So when the TSLA share price moves up (or many of the others in an ETF go down) some TSLA shares may have to be sold to properly balance the portfolios.

I appreciate that shortly after each market close ARK emails a report of its trading that day. Soon after that they update on their website the list of top holdings in each ETF. ARK Invest | Innovation Is Key to Growth and Alpha
 
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Even if I accept this thesis that autonomy will never be there, you are assuming all other car makers will survive the transition to EVs and hold on to their market share, which is absolutely nonsense. They have tens of billions of assets to write off, with their car residue value falling off a cliff in several years, causing a crisis in car loans and lease financing, and a huge inventory that they can't sell. given their debt load and thin margins, they hardly have money to pay bills. It's doubtful how many of them will survive this revolution, let alone investment in EV.

At the same time you assume Tesla will just stay there waiting for everyone to catch up!

All the while you are ignoring many of Tesla's advantages that has nothing to do with electrification at all


My fellow SA contributor Paulo Santos articlulated the change in the short thesis very well, I thought: "Why I Won't Sell Tesla Short Going Forward" It's
no longer a bankruptcy thesis, it's an overvaluation thesis.

I actually don't think it's wildly unreasonable to believe that Tesla is overvalued. I think Benedict Evans (a partner at Andreessen Horowitz and a student of S-curves and disruptive technologies) makes a strong argument that in the long run (think 10-20 years) the EV business — without autonomy — will probably become just as commoditized as the ICE vehicle business. Without autonomy, there are no network effects and no other obvious ways to avoid commoditization. I actually think that Tesla fans are often too cavalier in their dismissal of this argument, and I respect Bendict's systematic thinking.

On a shorter time horizon — let's say within the next 5 years — it seems to me like there's a good chance Tesla will kick ass. Supercharging, battery costs, and U.S. direct sales are all hard competitive advantages on Tesla's side. Maybe also electric drivetrain engineering.

But even if it takes 10 years or more, I think other automakers will eventually catch up on all those things. It seems like Tesla's lead in EVs can't be sustained forever and ever.

Apple has a network effect: the app ecosystem. That's the barrier to entry that makes smartphone OSes an iOS/Android duopoly. Without autonomy, EVs have no network effect and a barrier to entry as low as ICE vehicles.

If you fundamentally accept this, it becomes harder to articulate why Tesla should be in any way exceptional 15 years from now — leaving aside autonomy, and talking only about EVs.

Which is why I wrote this article yesterday: "Tesla Is Now A Self-Funding AI Lab" Tesla can become a much larger company than any automaker ever has been by capturing a 10%+ global market share in autonomous ride-hailing. This is the only way I see Tesla getting to an Apple-like or Google-like valuation, as opposed to a Toyota-like or GM-like valuation.
 
Apple's primary moat is the app ecosystem. Users attract developers attract users attract developers. It's a network effect. It's hard for a third mobile OS to break into the market for the same reason it's hard for a new social network to compete with Facebook or Twitter.

With many incumbents bankruptcy, Tesla commanding 30% of market share, they will have a lead in the third mobile OS, this time in cars. I have car play Android auto in my other car and my model 3. The difference is drastic.

The biggest problem with car play and Android auto is the car manufacturer really gets in the way of a smooth experience. Although Tesla's system still lacks functionality right now, this is one easy thing to catch up, and they are not even hiding their intention to support more apps in their system.

And this is another competitive advantage that has nothing to do with electrification. Not only provide a smooth experience for car owners, it will be a fleet manager's dream come true when Tesla's commercial fleet vehicle ship. Big car makers just have no clue.

I'm perfectly OK with Tesla being Toyota size but I do think it will be somewhere between Toyota and Apple.
 
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