Bet TSLA
Active Member
As soon as it costs less to buy and operate an EV than to operate an ICE, people will be desperate to get rid of any ICE they have. Price of fuel and insurance has much to do with that.
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May 17: Announcement of Agreement with Tesla
https://wcsecure.weblink.com.au/pdf/KDR/01982380.pdf
May 4: Announcement regarding the refinery they mentioned
https://wcsecure.weblink.com.au/pdf/KDR/01978746.pdf
This smells like Tesla is securing Lithium supply contracts for 2021 and the following years, which doesn't make sense at all, since my fellow bears promised me, they'd be bankwupt by then!
jeewee3000
Active Member
European commission proposing to build 10 to 20 battery factories in European Union. Am on mobile now, so only found early speech about this dating from february:
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Speech by Vice-President for Energy Union Maroš Šefčovič at the Industry Days Forum on the Industry-led initiative on batteries / the EU Battery Alliance
Funny he calls those factories 'giga factories'. Anyone know if Tesla trademarked that name?
Another nice touch is that the EU commission states the challenge of building 10 gigafactories is so huge that the EU memberstates must unite to fulfill this purpose. So once Tesla reaches 5 gigafactories it will represent about 50% of the European Union.
Wanted to post this because it again confirms that the switch to EV is imminent.
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Speech by Vice-President for Energy Union Maroš Šefčovič at the Industry Days Forum on the Industry-led initiative on batteries / the EU Battery Alliance
Funny he calls those factories 'giga factories'. Anyone know if Tesla trademarked that name?
Another nice touch is that the EU commission states the challenge of building 10 gigafactories is so huge that the EU memberstates must unite to fulfill this purpose. So once Tesla reaches 5 gigafactories it will represent about 50% of the European Union
.Wanted to post this because it again confirms that the switch to EV is imminent.
European commission proposing to build 10 to 20 battery factories in European Union. Am on mobile now, so only found early speech about this dating from february:
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Speech by Vice-President for Energy Union Maroš Šefčovič at the Industry Days Forum on the Industry-led initiative on batteries / the EU Battery Alliance
Funny he calls those factories 'giga factories'. Anyone know if Tesla trademarked that name?
Another nice touch is that the EU commission states the challenge of building 10 gigafactories is so huge that the EU memberstates must unite to fulfill this purpose. So once Tesla reaches 5 gigafactories it will represent about 50% of the European Union
Wanted to post this because it again confirms that the switch to EV is imminent.
The EU Commission has understand the urgency and why batterie factories are key but the European industry has not and as the EU Commission does not have any say in industry politics or even setting industry rules for nations as such its more a marketing attempt than anything at this stage.
They invited a few companies who invest in battery technology already but not one single OEM was involved which says it all.
I hope I am proven wrong and that the EU commission can help to convince, support and finance an initiative to build batterie factories although unless the big players make a strategy shift I do have my doubts that this will materialize.
What concerns me is that the large players like Daimler, BMW, VW and Bosch believe they do not need to manufacture batteries to succeed. It seems like they consider owning just the pack assembly and batterie management system as sufficient to compete against Tesla but I do not believe that this is a strategy that will work out. To consider batterie production an assembly a commodity is a huge mistakes and it looks like they have not (yet) understood the fundamental differentiation it makes for the consumer of EVs. This has implications on their future to be release cars in terms of costs as well as specs.
There was a good reason behind Elons comment in the last call (...) there is no (Batterie Class) class.... we are number 1...(...).
People believe he was downgrading competition but I believe he was just telling the truth. Remember what he said lately about moats and that he does believe only in continuous innovation and improvement. I predict that the competitive edge of Tesla in batterie technology will continue to grow.
I am afraid you haven‘t understood why the German car manufacturers incl. the suppliers like Bosch and Conti do not want to invest in battery production. Firstly they are not yet convinced that BEVs are the real solution and don‘t want to risk money as long as government subsidized Chinese companies are ready to deliver. And secondly the battery technology is developing and they don‘t want to get stuck with a huge investment in old technology. The statements from Panasonic also went into the same direction. They won‘t invest in 2170 cells or a further capacity increase in GF1 without Tesla going to pay for it ("take or pay" contract).
ValueAnalyst
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ValueAnalyst on Twitter
60% of 376 voters said $3,000 to "At which level would you sell most of your TSLA?" The percentage was trending at 90% before a known permabear retweeted the poll. The results show the vast majority of retail shareholders are invested in Tesla's longer term future.
60% of 376 voters said $3,000 to "At which level would you sell most of your TSLA?" The percentage was trending at 90% before a known permabear retweeted the poll. The results show the vast majority of retail shareholders are invested in Tesla's longer term future.
To put the situation in the car industry in the right prospective:
In April 2018 3171 BEVs were sold in Germany. This was 1% of total car sales in that month.
Out of these 3171 BEVs only 106 were made by Tesla. Tesla sales went down 36% in Germany and 31% in Switzerland during Jan-April 2018.
You see the need for urgency for German car manufacturers ?
In April 2018 3171 BEVs were sold in Germany. This was 1% of total car sales in that month.
Out of these 3171 BEVs only 106 were made by Tesla. Tesla sales went down 36% in Germany and 31% in Switzerland during Jan-April 2018.
You see the need for urgency for German car manufacturers ?
With the new Urban superchargers, it very well could be locations. Didn't they partner with some big retailer? Previous mention of supporting urban dwellers without home charging access...(Although 250 new SC groups of 8 isn't too shabby either)."thousands of Supercharger locations going through permitting/construction"
Could Elon really mean thousands of stations (locations), and not just chargers?
Elon Musk on Twitter
View attachment 301720
How would you be able to say that, when you exclude all retail shareholders that might have voted for $500 or so by making $1000 the lowest option? What about the people that bought around $380 some months ago and just want their money back to get out? ^^
Germany is an edge case. Not big enough to go by plane for most trips. Yet Autobahn is often unlimited speed and it's big enough that the distance is to far to make it without several stops for recharging. That and a lot of people prefering to buy national brands and avoiding US cars make it a bit special. I'm bearish, but lacking market penetration in germany isn't a really good point to make. There is not very much regarding incentives. We'll probably keep lagging behind a bit over here.
Yes. The thing is that the BEVs haven't quite reached the tipping point in the mass market. And when we do hit that tipping point, it's basically unstoppable.
Currently, really only Tesla is able to make compelling BEVs even when disregarding subsidies, and they haven't started selling more reasonably priced BEVs in Europe yet. When the Model 3 does come to Europe in volume, things will start to look worse for the European car companies.
But luckily for the European car companies, Teslas first reasonably priced car is a sedan. If it had been the Model Y or a hatchback, they should have been a lot more nervous a lot sooner. And also, the Tesla factory in Europe is still years away, so they will continue to have factors like taxation and shipping in their favour.
But the German car companies really do need to work on making attractive BEVs now, because time is running out, year by year.
ValueAnalyst
Closed
The percentage was trending at 90%, until a known bear retweeted the poll. My guess is that bears, who do not own shares, skewed the results.
Even without that, however, 60% voted for $3,000 per share.
I'm not disputing that bears skewed your result or that the people who have voted mostly clicked the $3,000 per share option.
I'm disputing that "The results show the vast majority of retail shareholders are invested in Tesla's longer term future."
is a valid conclusion to be drawn from a survey on the Twitter of a perma-bull offering options from $1,000 and higher. ;-)
If automakers could live from the German market alone that would count.
It’s sad, the German automakers not only closed there own battery factories, but think its enough to buy batteries from a supplier.
Remember: The power in future cars with electric motors isn’t provided by the motor anymore but by the source that provides the power. Wether it comes from fuel cell or batteries.
So in the past all the German sporty cars stood for, was their ability to make great motors (ICE). And that was a major buying argument for costumers.
What do you think would be their image today, if they only assambled a bought Asian motor and implemented it in a BMW, Mercedes, VW, Porsche?
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davecolene0606
Member
1. Chinese companies are not "ready to deliver"
2. The "statements from Panasonic" neither say nor imply that "They won‘t invest in 2170 cells or a further capacity increase in GF1 without Tesla going to pay for it ("take or pay" contract)."
So on #1, perhaps one could form an opinion that somehow the battery tech from "subsidized" Chinese companies is anywhere close to Tesla's price point or any other measure from incomplete information. #2 is a matter of record and statements that are contrary to what is implied here on the record both from the press and financial documents from Panasonic.
Fire Away!
K_Dizzle
Member
It will probably blow the BMW M3 out of the water. So definitely <4 seconds. I don't think they want to make it to beat the Model S P100D, though, so I'd say around 3 - 3,2 secs.
Can we take the anti-EV FUD discussion to another thread?
Mod: done. See Teslie: EVs make no sense if anyone wants to continue this discussion, but not here. --ggr
Mod: done. See Teslie: EVs make no sense if anyone wants to continue this discussion, but not here. --ggr
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As Germany is in discussion here, some statistics from today:
Alternative Antriebe in the red circle equals EVs, Hybrid and other. We can see a nice growing trend. Still its true the Teslas Q1 numbers have been weak this year in Germany.
Diesel is falling off a cliff and Gas is increasing to fill the gap.
I talked to a Salesman of a German Tesla store last week. He confirmed that every store has sales objectives and they do achieve theirs. Given the stable global run rate of about 100k S and X I believe its all about allocation here as the units are just constraint by supply and not by demand. IOW if Tesla wanted to they could sell more S and X in Germany.
Alternative Antriebe in the red circle equals EVs, Hybrid and other. We can see a nice growing trend. Still its true the Teslas Q1 numbers have been weak this year in Germany.
Diesel is falling off a cliff and Gas is increasing to fill the gap.
I talked to a Salesman of a German Tesla store last week. He confirmed that every store has sales objectives and they do achieve theirs. Given the stable global run rate of about 100k S and X I believe its all about allocation here as the units are just constraint by supply and not by demand. IOW if Tesla wanted to they could sell more S and X in Germany.
Sales of ICE vehicles will be banned throughout the EU sooner rather than later. Prior to this, access to cities will become progressively restricted. Won’t be many people wanting fossil-fueled BMW’s and Merc’s then.
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