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Vatican Encyclical on Climate Change

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by MartinAustin, Jun 18, 2015.

  1. MartinAustin

    MartinAustin Active Member

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    #1 MartinAustin, Jun 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2015
  2. CALGARYARSENAL

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  3. gene

    gene Active Member

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    My wife who is a 1st grade teacher was suggesting at a staff meeting that 1st graders should be taught about climate change. Her idea was shot down, cited by other teachers and the principal that "climate change" is still debatable and that it hasn;t been proven yet. Huh???????????
     
  4. Drax7

    Drax7 Active Member

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    galileo was shut down by the church, when science gets polluted with politics , bad stuff can happen.
     
  5. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Yes, you are right, it is *only* 98% of climate scientists that agree that climate change is a real thing. Yep... still open for debate.

    Did you know that as late as 1960 as little as 1/3 of Doctors believed that smoking caused cancer. And after reviewing over 7000 scientific articles and releasing the report in 1964 all of that changed. Even still the tobacco industry fought tooth and nail with their own "scientists" discrediting the findings. It's funny because there is a book out there talking about Scientists for hire in which the very same people (not company... people... individuals) who were "experts" in cancer and smoking claiming that smoking didn't harm you, are now the same people who are suddenly climate "scientists" trying to discredit climate change as being a fact. Those are the 2% who are screaming as loud as they can because they have been paid off to say these things. It takes far less credibility for people to accept other things... why is this even still a debate?
     
  6. mejojo

    mejojo Member

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    When you are a politician, and your boss (billionaire donor) makes his billions from fossil fuels, apparently you make the claim that 1) there is no causal effect or 2) There's nothing we can do about it.

    When you are bound to your political party, most don't question the propaganda.
     
  7. eloder

    eloder Member

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    Generalizations tend to fail, as individual cases can definitely bring about more good than harm.

    No matter what the driving force behind the move to renewable and sustainable energy, it's hard to find the harm in that whether it's from a spiritual belief or one based in hard science.

    Anyways, the stock appears to be matching with the market as of now. Can't complain, when they're both green :)
     
  8. ggies07

    ggies07 Active Member

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    Your wife needs to show them this article then: How Tesla Will Change The World | Wait But Why
     
  9. sub

    sub Member

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    The pope speaking out is good news. An overwhelming majority (probably all of them) of climate change deniers are religious (and Republicans) at least in the U.S. Obviously these people are easily duped into believing fictitious things on multiple levels. :) I'll stop there.
     
  10. Drax7

    Drax7 Active Member

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    No question whatever the driving force it's a great idea to get rid of hydrocarbons. I believe, that consuming , mostly burning 93 million barrels of crude oil per day , world daily consumption, cannot be good thing.
     
  11. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    I would suggest that we do need to be careful with regard to shifting into "renewables" that we pay attention to what it is we are actually trying to replace it with. For example Bio Fuels and ethanol, because of this being mandated by the US government is part of what has translated into the chopping down of the rain forests in South America to grow crops to turn into fuels... What is the difference between the Sahara and the Amazon? Both get extremely hot... both sit on around the same latitude... If we aren't careful we are likely to turn the Amazon into the Sahara as they did once long ago with the middle east... that fertile crescent isn't so fertile anymore...
     
  12. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    This encyclical backs Roman Catholic politicians into an interesting box. They can't credibly say that they look to the scientists for to guide their environmental policy. Now they can't say they look to their religious faith. Even the oil majors are in favor of carbon regulation (at least publicly). Could a good interviewer could back these guys (and they are mostly guys) into admitting that they're looking out for the corporate pocketbooks of their donors? Or at least force them to say, "government shouldn't be in the business of regulating the environment"?
     
  13. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Those people do not understand science.
    You can't prove anthropomorphic climate change. You can't prove the big bang. You can't prove quantum mechanics. You can't prove relativity...

    That's not how science works. It is sad to me that so many people - especially educators - do not understand science.
     
  14. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    #14 nwdiver, Jun 18, 2015
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    Scientists and science educators need to understand that scientists and the public speak two different languages. The translation of theory is 'proven'; Yes, no theory is EVER proven... but you don't have time to explain that in your elevator speech. So, translation.... Anthropogenic Global Warming is a proven fact.

    Does anyone have a link to an English version of the encyclical? I wish the pope had emphasized a SMARTER lifestyle over a SMALLER lifestyle... IMO that would be an easier sell.

    ....Never mind.... found it...
     
  15. Curt Renz

    Curt Renz Active Member

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    #15 Curt Renz, Jun 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    Much of the anthropogenic climate change denial propaganda is coordinated through the Heartland Institute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute

    It’s supposedly a think tank, but was originally the PR center for tobacco companies denying the adverse health effects of their products. Now their funding comes mainly from oil companies and their political allies. I’m embarrassed that they are based here in Chicago.

    A few years ago the Nobel Prize winning climatologist Don Wuebbles of the University of Illinois convinced my friend Tom Skilling (a long revered Chicago TV weatherman) to stop being a denier. It was Tom who pointed me to the 19-minute 2011 video seen below in which Wuebbles explained anthropogenic climate change. At the two-minute mark he mocks the Heartland Institute:


    <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c78JmupgjAo">
     
  16. austinEV

    austinEV Active Member

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    Best. Pope. Ever. This is huge.
     
  17. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Yes but the original comment was talking about teachers. Even non-science teachers should have a basic understanding of what science is and what it is not.

    I know that they don't and some of them are too dumb to understand it, it is just sad. I had a high school biology teacher - yes biology - who would jump up and down on the desk and yell "That's not true!" whenever we watched a science film that said "evolve".
     
  18. austinEV

    austinEV Active Member

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    I (42 years old now) went to school, Kinder through college in Kansas, I think before they got as science hostile as they are now. In eighth grade english we had to do a speech on a topic of our choice. I chose evolution, because I thought it was neat and I already knew a lot about it since I had an old encyclopedia book on it. I told my teacher and she said that would be "controversial". I didn't have a clue what she meant. I did my speech, no one ever said anything about it (I traced life from origins to humans).

    My high school science teachers (biology too) were awesome. I remember we had a dumb paragraph on lamarckian evolution and creationism, but they were really in there like "we have to put this in here too" and quickly moved on. I think kids today don't have it as good as I did.
     
  19. Vger

    Vger Active Member

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    Just having read the summary of the encyclical in the NYT, I am very impressed. To me, as both a scientist and a technologist (though largely retired), I am very pleased that Pope Francis is encouraging the conscientious embrace of science, while calling into question the idea that technology only does helpful things. Science is a method to gain reliable knowledge, but it alone does nothing to bring about wisdom. Sustainability is central to wisdom and compassion— humanity. What is not sustainable, whether crude industry or high technology, intrinsically limits the future of humanity, and the rest of the ecological community upon which we are dependent.

    In my book knowledge + morality = wisdom. A religious leader that reminds us all of that, without regard to the boundaries of his own particular faith and dogma, is a saint, in my humble opinion.

    Bravo Papa Francesco!
     
  20. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    So.... ensure that renewables are actually renewable :wink:
     

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