Volvo’s Polestar unveils performance electric car, announces new ‘Tesla Model 3 competitor’
So... it will be a BEV soon, right?
So... it will be a BEV soon, right?
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Volvo, following Tesla, doesn't beat EV with ugly stick
- Thread starter SabrToothSqrl
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ThisIsTrue
Re-member
Totally agree: that's a fine-looking car, inside and out. But plug-in hybrid, just as they announced they'd ONLY make BEVs? Weird.
souslik
Member
They didn't. They just said all their future cars would be electrified. I think they even mentioned mild hybrids.
ThisIsTrue
Re-member
A semantic quibble. The first two paragraphs of the OP's linked story read:
(emphasis added)
I don't think informed electric car buyers would consider a PIH a true "electric car".
souslik
Member
I think they deliberately play with the wording "electric car". Just look at the title and text of their July press release.
The path for Volvo branded cars and Polestar is clearly different. In the Volvo case, they definitely played with the electric part, really meaning what people usually call "electrified" which encompasses everything from mild hybrid to strong hybrid to plug-in hybrid to fully electric. Polestar on the other hand was pretty clear that the Polestar 1 is plug-in hybrid with a relatively long range while everything coming later would be fully electric.
"They want to compete with Tesla, but not with their first car."
So, some day in the far-off future, Polestar will make a Model 3 killer. Tesla of course, by then, will be making the Model 5 or 8 and the Model 3 will have moved into the used-car market at a price that a single mom working at CheapoPlasticMart can afford. By all accounts (I've never owned one) Volvo makes good cars. In a decade, they and other car makers will be putting up some real competition to Tesla. And that's a good thing. In the mean time Tesla is the clear leader. And the only car company committed to never making stinkers. That's worth something in my book.
So, some day in the far-off future, Polestar will make a Model 3 killer. Tesla of course, by then, will be making the Model 5 or 8 and the Model 3 will have moved into the used-car market at a price that a single mom working at CheapoPlasticMart can afford. By all accounts (I've never owned one) Volvo makes good cars. In a decade, they and other car makers will be putting up some real competition to Tesla. And that's a good thing. In the mean time Tesla is the clear leader. And the only car company committed to never making stinkers. That's worth something in my book.
deonb
Active Member
So a 93 mile range Volvo presents an interesting challenge. It's very possible to drive a whole year without needing more than a 93 mile range.
But you can't leave Ethanol-based gasoline in a tank for that long, it will go bad after 6 months.
So if you drive a whole year locally only and then go on vacation (which is a quite common lifestyle) - the gas you think you have won't actually fire when you need it, or it will clog up the engine. A family member of mine recently screwed up a Camry hybrid's engine this way by putting in year-old E85.
I wonder if a Swedish manufacturer thought about the effect of Ethanol-based gas, since they won't have that problem in Sweden. Ethanol-free gas will last closer to 2 years so your yearly "vacation" needs will naturally cycle the gasoline. But it's very difficult to find Ethanol-free in the US and most people won't think about it.
I guess they can artificially burn off 3 gallons of fuel a month just for funsies so that you artificially run out every 6 months, but eww.
But you can't leave Ethanol-based gasoline in a tank for that long, it will go bad after 6 months.
So if you drive a whole year locally only and then go on vacation (which is a quite common lifestyle) - the gas you think you have won't actually fire when you need it, or it will clog up the engine. A family member of mine recently screwed up a Camry hybrid's engine this way by putting in year-old E85.
I wonder if a Swedish manufacturer thought about the effect of Ethanol-based gas, since they won't have that problem in Sweden. Ethanol-free gas will last closer to 2 years so your yearly "vacation" needs will naturally cycle the gasoline. But it's very difficult to find Ethanol-free in the US and most people won't think about it.
I guess they can artificially burn off 3 gallons of fuel a month just for funsies so that you artificially run out every 6 months, but eww.
IIRC, Toyota is one of the automakers taking a stand against anything higher than 10% Ethanol. So, the Camry Hybrid was probably not going to run properly on E85 to begin with, regardless of age.
Exactly. Its the author of Electrek article who needs to improve critical reading skills..
Very clear to me. They don't say that an electric motor will be the "only" propulsion system. They say just the opposite: that their future cars won't be exclusively internal combustion engines.
Am I missing something? The article appeared to me to say in black and white that after the Polestar 1, all future Polestar cars will be pure battery cars:
Then they describe the next two they have planned, using the term BEV for each of them...
The ~100 mile electric range of the Polestar 1 is pretty impressive for a PHEV, too (though they are likely NDEC miles, I suppose. Still better than an i3, let alone a Volt.)
The T8 lineup seem to be pretty well sorted for small battery PHEVs, and Volvo knows how to make premium cars. It's still just a press release, but I think this is one of the more promising ones I've seen. Hopefully they deliver what they're promising.
I have an ELR with a 40 mi range. It burns off gas when it determines the gas is becoming stale. It really isn't a big deal. Chances are you drive more than 40 (or 90) miles on a trip and have to fill up more often than once every three/six months. If not then you can drive a Leaf.
I have driven both the ELR and my S75D from NY to OH roundtrip. Three SC stops for Tesla vs one refuel for ELR which got 40 mpg on highway. I have a first day order for Model 3 but will also look at this Volvo if it is real. It is nice to be un-tethered from SC network at times. Different strokes for different folks
souslik
Member
I was referring to Volvo. In their June/July announcements they talked about "electrifying" their cars with a range from light hybrids to BEVs. Back then they also talked about "electrified" cars with their newly announced Polestar brand. But you're right of course, now with the announcement of the Polestar 1 they said that all future Polestar models will be fully electric.
I agree, Volvo is on the right track and I'd love to see them make compelling BEVs sooner than later and work out a deal with Tesla in order to provide their customers access to the supercharger network.
It doesn't quite say that if you are cynical enough . It say the drivetrain is all electric, which doesn't exclude the series(?) hybrid where the ICE charges the battery but does not provide mechanical power to move the car.
According to electrek, Polestar plans to build only about 50,000 vehicles by 2023 ("around 50,000 plus") and only two of its three planned models will be EVs. Polestar’s plans to compete with Tesla Model 3 are less ambitious than we thought
Another anemic EV effort by a legacy automaker. I was hoping for more, especially given the Geely connection.
Another anemic EV effort by a legacy automaker. I was hoping for more, especially given the Geely connection.
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Polestar will stay the performance sub brand, Volvo will have it's own EVs, starting with an electric V40 in 2019.
https://jalopnik.com/volvos-first-electric-car-will-be-a-hatchback-report-1822556659
Polestar will still be like BMW M, or Mercedes AMG, so a volume of 50k on 3 vehicles is acceptable.
I agree it's confusing, since Polestar claimed the Polestar 2 will go after the Model 3, but I guess it will be based on a higher volume electric Volvo (S60?).
Edit: 50k is actually a lot, AMG has more like 30k cars. Not sure if Polestar will aim at lower performance, too. Maybe rebranding with slightly different interior / exterior?
Well, as you point out, that's not what Polestar's CEO says. He referred to the Polestar 2 -- its first fully electric vehicle -- as a competitor to the Model 3 in a press release:
“Polestar 2 will start production later in 2019 and will be the first battery-electric vehicle (BEV) from the Volvo Car Group. It will be a mid-sized BEV, joining the competition around the Tesla Model 3, and with consequently higher volumes than Polestar 1. The initial phase of the Polestar product roll out will then be completed by the subsequent arrival of a larger SUV-style BEV, the Polestar 3, which will create a modern expression of electric performance and driving dynamics.” Volvo’s Polestar unveils performance electric car, announces new ‘Tesla Model 3 competitor’
The press release even refers to the Polestar 2 as having "higher volumes" which reinforced that they would try to go toe-to-toe with the Model 3. The Polestar 1 -- which is a plug-in hybrid -- was described as their "halo" product. The Polestar 3 is supposed to be an SUV.
A 2022 goal of producing 50,000 vehicles, only two of which are EVs and one of which is designed to compete with the Model 3, is pretty pathetic. Polestar’s plans to compete with Tesla Model 3 are less ambitious than we thought
We will see if Geely's plans to market EVs under the Volvo nameplate are equally unambitious. Especially since Geely is also developing EVs for China there is still room for hope that Geely will step up and become a leader in the EV space in Europe and North America but that remains to be seen. The details of the Polestar plan are a big disappointment after the initial hype so I am not holding my breath that Geely will do much more with their Volvo brand for the foreseeable future.
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Basically it's 50k for two EVs, since the Polestar 1, the PHEV, is limited to 500 units a year. But since Volvo will apparently get their own EVs, which by definition will compete with Tesla, I do think the Polestar vehicles will take on the higher trim Teslas, P versions and so, while the lower trim versions will be covered by Volvo.
Otherwise Volvo and Polestar vehicles would compete directly, which is not a good idea for two cars on the same dealer lot. My guess is that the Polestar vehicles will look slightly different, more sexy, less practical, come with more performance and a higher price tag.
I don't think two EVs with less than 50k sales each would be profitable, unless sold at a very high premium, or shared components with higher volume EVs.
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