Eno Deb
Active Member
Bjoern did a real world test with the 58 kWh model at 90 and 120km/h. Results:
90km/h:
VW ID.3: 413km/257mi
M3 SR+: 402km/250mi
120km/h:
VW ID.3: 271km/168 mi
M3 SR+: 254km/158 mi
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
VW ID.3 beats Tesla model 3
- Thread starter one2many
- Start date
90km/h:
VW ID.3: 413km/257mi
M3 SR+: 402km/250mi
120km/h:
VW ID.3: 271km/168 mi
M3 SR+: 254km/158 mi
I'm not sure you are applying "debunked" in the same way others do, especially with VW themselves admitted they were having issues so serious they had to store cars instead of deliver them. What has shipped to customers is just the bits that worked and even that took way longer than they planned.
You can't debunk something when the manufacturer is the one saying it has issues.
The VW's will be great cars and they deserve full credit for what they're doing, but can't just pretend they aren't having issues.
Eno Deb
Active Member
I think pre-producing cars is standard procedure for them so the cars are broadly available on launch. Their target was always "summer 2020", and they (just) made it.
Early reports are that a few things are missing (not just the fancy AR HUD, but also Carplay and some navigation features), and there are occasional UI glitches. But I have no doubt that they'll fix it rather quickly with OTA updates. Tesla also had its share of software problems.
I think the ID.3 will do well in Europe and will probably eat the Model 3's lunch because of the lower price.
Wow VW will do good in Europe, thats news. EV's are hard to sell in that segment, not that I care,
for cost a Zoe may be a better buy. A leaf may, a Kia and the list goes on.
In Germany range and speed are king. Not a lot of second car households here. Most people have
a bus or a train minutes from the door, a car to go to work only does not make any sense.
Why in the name of Gin and Tonic would anyone care what goes on here? (VW really?)
I do not think you will change Monty Pythons mind.
Eno Deb
Active Member
If a Tesla can be used as the primary car, so can an ID.3, since it has basically the same range as the comparable Model 3 trim. There is also no shortage of CCS chargers in most of Europe.
You seem to enjoy Gin and Tonic a lot.
Eno Deb
Active Member
There are now "hoods" in good old Germany?
The ID.3 models with the 77kWh battery have roughly the same range as the LR Model 3.
absolutely not disputing that Tesla has had issues at all - they rely on their regular OTA release cadence to fix their issues.
also equally absolutely disputing that the VW software issues were at all "debunked"
Hopefully VW are planning a regular OTA release schedule to do the same - another nail in the coffin of model years.
Like I mentioned, I really hope VW prove the other manufacturers wrong and easily sell more than 30k a year. The type of person who buys a VW is probably not Tesla customer, the ID3 isn't a performance car after all. Its not like someone would cross shop between a Golf and a BMW 3 so not sure why people expect the same to happen with Tesla and VW. Their CEOs seem to have a mutual admiration thing going.
I find it slightly comedic that people see them as competitors - its because they think the EV market is small and self limiting thanks to lackluster offerings from the GM/Fords of this world who are paying lip service to providing competitive EVs. Yes OK the Mustang is cool looking, but they're only making 30-40k of them, VW plan on selling 10x that number.
OK let me try this one more time (watching Law and Order in forum land )
I had a Leaf, very dangerous on the autobahn. You drive at 80 mph and cars
running 124mph come up behind. You need to get the car out of the way. Not
enough power and you have a car in your back seat. To avoid this you either
have to have a Tesla or drive 55. Yes we have imported Yuppies, and there crazy
beer driven life style, and we also have Holland just for fun.
I had a Leaf, very dangerous on the autobahn. You drive at 80 mph and cars
running 124mph come up behind. You need to get the car out of the way. Not
enough power and you have a car in your back seat. To avoid this you either
have to have a Tesla or drive 55. Yes we have imported Yuppies, and there crazy
beer driven life style, and we also have Holland just for fun.
Eno Deb
Active Member
I think they'll stick with model years. Continuous changes create lots of issues e.g. with spare part logistics. This is something that the big carmakers have down to a T. That doesn't preclude regular OTA updates.
I think there are a lot of people who bought Tesla because it was the first EV that can really replace a gasoline car, not so much because of performance (and straight line acceleration isn't considered as important in Europe as it is in the US anyway). For many it was the first time they spent $50k on a car. Those people will probably switch. But more importantly, I hope that VW can win customers who didn't consider a longer-range EV before because of the price. Also, in Europe VW is perceived as a "reliable" partner with a long history, whereas Tesla still is a bit of an unknown and has issues with service in particular. This will appeal to more conservative buyers.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Not sure why you keep bringing up the Leaf. The ID.3 has significantly more power (over 200 HP) and range, particularly compared to the first generation Leaf.
I have lived in Germany for years. Most people drive 130-150 km/h on the Autobahn, The ID.3 will do perfectly fine. Very few people drive at sustained high speed in a Tesla or other EV because it kills range.
Last edited:
For bottom readers
1. Monty Python would call the ID.3 a Leaf
2. Rolling both the Leaf and ID.3 into a lake would prove they are the same (sink)
3. The early VW bug would float, maybe made by witches
4. Any auto reviewer should be witch tested
5 ID.3 had and still has massive software issues (google told me so)
6. Some people just cant have fun with a silly post
7. data does not prove anything good
8. A slow dog of a car is compared to performance car
9. the German autobahn is a very fast place to play
10. I attract VW fans
11. I am completely out of my mind
12. Have a hot babe
1. Monty Python would call the ID.3 a Leaf
2. Rolling both the Leaf and ID.3 into a lake would prove they are the same (sink)
3. The early VW bug would float, maybe made by witches
4. Any auto reviewer should be witch tested
5 ID.3 had and still has massive software issues (google told me so)
6. Some people just cant have fun with a silly post
7. data does not prove anything good
8. A slow dog of a car is compared to performance car
9. the German autobahn is a very fast place to play
10. I attract VW fans
11. I am completely out of my mind
12. Have a hot babe
CertLive
Member
Well it just appeared to me that they were on time with release and did not do so until the software was in good shape. Seems everything is functional as intended. Whether it will be as tweakable or need to be as tweakable as a model 3 is another thing.
On another note I suppose most of the established before Tesla companies were quite happy to transition at their own slower pace. Tesla forced their hand big time. Supply to meet demand is key and so is price. Volume numbers and at any time VW would be in probably a better position to meet potential market changes and demand.
I have tested, studied and been lucky enough to own 2 EV brands. But I admit I think the VW is the first overall package to take many points about the model 3 head on and even excel in them. The 3 is the best car I have ever driven. Speed off the line no Tesla is just the winner here. But quality, inside ride noise, lights, hud, range. They have been matched or beaten. Tesla will not take this standing still, they never have stood still. This is really good for the EV segment. Solid competition is exactly what you want.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Are you sure you were looking?
because the fact it was delayed was very widely reported... just a few examples-
Volkswagen ID.3 delayed to September for first European deliveries.
VW’s first mass-market EV suffers delay thanks to software struggles
Volkswagen Delays Key Electric Car Launch Amid Software Troubles
That's just flat out untrue.
The software was so bad they gave buyers the choice of simply not getting the software at all when they got the car and maybe getting it added later when actually ready- or delaying taking delivery of the car entirely if they wanted to wait to get a complete car delivered.
(see again those links I just provided).
They still are missing all those functions including the infotainment stuff not just the HUD because they still don't have fully working software.
CertLive
Member
So they did release the car when it was ready and in good shape even if it was delayed to miss out 2 software features. So what I am saying is true all the ramble about software glitches the car you drive off with works. Should we even touch on what happened to voice commands on the model 3 start of the year or phantom breaking? As a Tesla user you should know you can live great with one update and the next not so much fun as a surprise. Its funny because out of the many YouTube reviews I have seen none has come up with missing infotainment stuff, features not working or in fact fit and finish issues. Not to mention totally missing out the things they do much better with to be competitive. Its seems now very much speed vs comfort and quality. Hats off to them when the car landed may it be late in peoples expectations its actually competitive. I am actually torn between both cars now for a rebuy. ID4 or Model 3 and its lucky we have good choices. But to keep blabbering on about software issues that don't plague the use of the car but actually will be put in when ready is not such a bad idea is it?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Once again you've somehow been given sources and facts, then claimed the exact opposite of them.
It was delayed for software problems you, falsely, claimed were debunked but instead actually happened- and VW themselves widely admitted happened.
Just like you falsely claimed it wasn't even delayed, which again- it factually was.
Now you're claiming it was "ready" despite having just been shown it was released without promised features being ready
In fact- they're still not ready TODAY.
If by works you mean "drives" then sure.
If you mean works by "does the things the buyers were actually promised" then no- you're wrong again
It might eventually do them.
But it doesn't now.
So much so they not only delayed the car for months TRYING to fix it (and failing so far to do so) they offered to let people continue to delay taking ownership until they fixed them... or they could accept the vehicle as-is now and come back later to maybe get these things added.
It's frankly bizarre how little regard you're giving to widely reported and well documented facts in order to shill for VW apparently.
What happened to them? Mine still work fine.
If your phantom is broken you should certainly get it fixed.
If you mean unexpected braking from a driver assist system, that's common among all radar based systems.
Many far worse than Teslas.... some have had mandatory safety recalls imposed because they're so much worse.... some have had class action lawsuits because they're so much worse.
So not sure where you're going with that one either.
Not really.
It's pretty trivial to just wait to apply the update until you're seen folks discussing the results of it.
In particular you usually want to at least wait for a .1 update to a genuinely new release.
This is a lesson most people learned with cell phones a decade ago but I guess you somehow "missed" that news too?
How would they review a feature that's not even on the car?
But again VW themselves admit they're missing so I'm at a loss- not for the first time- in trying to figure out why you keep denying facts even the company that made the car tell you are true about its shortcomings.
But if you only believe it when someone who is NOT VW "reviews" it- here ya go:
German publication pans VW ID.3 for build quality, infotainment
CertLive
Member
It was all debunked because when the car was released it has none of the software issues and if you are talking about apple car play etc coming after release then what is wrong with that? Widely reported in these forums about the phantom, voice issues and general build quality for which I can personally back up as an m3 owner.
Fact is its good competition and depends what you like about your EV. But as a complete package the ID3 & 4 are doing a better job with the finished product. Lets see how Tesla respond in 2021. That is why I am inclined to agree with the OP the model 3 has now been beaten unless acceleration is just your thing.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Is there an echo in here?
It "had none of the software issues" because they removed the broken software entirely
It'd be like saying you debunked Nikola planning to show a fake truck at Nikolaworld 2020 because they cancelled the show.
You mean besides it confirming they have broken software rightr now?
Which is the opposite of debunking the fact they have serious software problems?
Seriously- you're embarrassing yourself man.
Given neither is actually a finished product you're once again making claims that are grossly and factually untrue.
Seems to be a habit for you.
The ID.4 isn't even available yet- and the ID.3 is shipping unfinished because....guess why?
VW continues to have software they still can't get to work right yet.
And I already linked you to a review from a german car mag pointing out how garbage the fit and finish was on the ID.3 as well.
How could one of my posts go off the rails ?
How can I attract VW fans on a Tesla forum ?
Yes the model 3 does not have the dual beer keg coolers
for the back seat yet but come on.
ZOE 24K 52kwh new
Leaf 30K for 60kwh new
For bottom readers only :
ID3 problems are well documented, fit and finish and software from the DOS age.
Sorry I could not find any reviews about having sex in an ID3.
I am starting to think that 2 year ownership of an old leaf should be a requirement
to post here.
How can I attract VW fans on a Tesla forum ?
Yes the model 3 does not have the dual beer keg coolers
for the back seat yet but come on.
ZOE 24K 52kwh new
Leaf 30K for 60kwh new
For bottom readers only :
ID3 problems are well documented, fit and finish and software from the DOS age.
Sorry I could not find any reviews about having sex in an ID3.
I am starting to think that 2 year ownership of an old leaf should be a requirement
to post here.
CertLive
Member
I am embarrassing myself? Let me put this a little clearer for you so you might understand. The car they provide as you sit in the showroom and the software they have works just fine. It is also the car you get that is shown on the website. All the rambling about software issues and they delivered a very competitive car. You seem to want to paste features not implemented yet as issues. But then compare to a Tesla that has software in it that has issues as listed above and auto park and nurfed summon. Also what about the whopping promise of HW3 being a "full" self driving computer? It does not work yet. The difference with VW is what they have added works and they will add the rest when it does but it does not impair the use of the car for the user. So far also there are no reported issues from new users which is a good sign for a new launch. So from the start they are doing a better job for their customers.
The fit and finish is garbage? lol have you even sat in one yet? Actually the fit and finish is actually finished and checked. When you get in once and close that door and realise at 70mph is quiet inside compared to the 3 it makes a large difference to your experience. I am sure the 2021 model 3 will have better sound insulation to counter this. So this is where I believe you are grossly factually untrue going on mass media negative hype when the product that has landed in its users laps are of superior quality to Tesla's current offering. Go and actually sit in one and the dealer like I have. Then come back and realise out of all the current EV's on sale to this point the model 3 has serious competition. When I state this its not a superior car its just it does some things better and is at a level where you feel the complete package is a rival and no longer a catch up car.
Similar threads
