Want to return new Tesla

[AnxietyRanger]

(a) disabling is the devil! (b) disabling is angelic!

It's a shame we can't seem to find any common middle ground.

Half the time it seems to me the other side does not understand the other one's arguments. I guess that's in part what ignore lists do.

 

[bhzmark]

Ugh, but this makes no sense if AP automatically disengages at 90.

It doesn't.

 

[HankLloydRight]

It did for me. This point is still open.

If it never disengages, then where's the punishment?

 

[bhzmark]

It did for me. This point is still open.

If it never disengages, then where's the punishment?

Try again and pay close attention. It sounds the alarms, but it keeps steering. I confirmed this clearly.

The punishment is so that drivers are disincentivized to intentionally accelerate above 90 under AP. But if it accidentally or negligently happens, AP will continue to steer to minimize risk to occupants until the driver does take over.

This isn't really that hard to understand.

I'm baffled by the confusion and outrage on this point -- unless the former explains the latter. The OP is a prime example of confusion leading to outrage. But even experienced Tesla owners still seem confused on the details of what happens and doesn't happen at > 90mph under AP.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Try again and pay close attention. It sounds the alarms, but it keeps steering. I confirmed this clearly.

The punishment is so that drivers are disincentivized to intentionally accelerate above 90 under AP. But if it accidentally or negligently happens, AP will continue to steer to minimize risk to occupants until the driver does take over.

This isn't really that hard to understand.

I'm baffled by the confusion and outrage on this point -- unless the former explains the latter. The OP is a prime example of confusion leading to outrage. But even experienced Tesla owners still seem confused on the details of what happens and doesn't happen at > 90mph under AP.

There is no confusion, there is a disagreement on what it should do - and some uncertainty on what it actually does as people have had different experiences on how AP1/AP2 reacts to enabling AP at over 90 mph. There is probably some variance to how the system reacts.

Some of clearly would just prefer AP2 to disengage at over 90 mph and not allow it to be enabled either - but not be disabled until park. It is not that hard to understand this opinion, I hope.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Try again and pay close attention. It sounds the alarms, but it keeps steering. I confirmed this clearly.

Ummm...nope.

Just tried it. Turned on AP(1), took it up to 90mph (the upper limit) and then pressed the accelerator for about 3 seconds to push it over 90mph and without hesitation, I got the big red hands that said "take over immediately" and AP disengaged. TACC stayed engaged. AP could not be re-engaged until I stopped the car. The blue lines had completely disappeared. Any attempt at re-engaging AP resulted in the three bongs and the yellow/orange icon flashing three times. At no point after I exceed 90mph was AP or auto-steering enabled, or able to be re-engaged.

There is absolutely NO confusion here.

If the difference is AP1 vs. AP2, then that clearly points to this all being Tesla's doing..as if it were regulatory, you'd think they would both behave exactly the same way.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Thank you for the test, @HankLloydRight. Come to think of it, I think there have also been others who have said they have accidentally tried to enable AP while over 90 mph and that resulted in the disabling as well.

Do you remember similar or have experience on that? Driving, say, 91 mph manually and pulling the stalk...

 

[HankLloydRight]

Do you remember similar or have experience on that? Driving, say, 91 mph manually and pulling the stalk...

I think I've tried that once, and it just wouldn't enable, but it didn't put me in AP jail. Will try again soon.

 

[bhzmark]

Ummm...nope.

Just tried it. Turned on AP(1), took it up to 90mph (the upper limit) and then pressed the accelerator for about 3 seconds to push it over 90mph and without hesitation, I got the big red hands that said "take over immediately" and AP disengaged. TACC stayed engaged. AP could not be re-engaged until I stopped the car. The blue lines had completely disappeared. Any attempt at re-engaging AP resulted in the three bongs and the yellow/orange icon flashing three times. At no point after I exceed 90mph was AP or auto-steering enabled, or able to be re-engaged.

There is absolutely NO confusion here.

If the difference is AP1 vs. AP2, then that clearly points to this all being Tesla's doing..as if it were regulatory, you'd think they would both behave exactly the same way.

The confusion is that you are looking at the dash AP steering wheel circle instead of noticing the physical steering wheel will continue to steer.

We both have AP1.

My steps and result are:
1. I engage AP.
2. I depress accel pedal to exceed 90 -- I went to 96 mph.
3. At 91 mph the steering wheel icon fades away (suggesting that Autosteer is off, but it isn't) and red Take Over Immediately window comes up, flashers go on.
4. While alarms are going off, and I haven't touched the steering wheel, the cars steers through a gentle but very real curve, while the car slows down because I let off the accel.

Autosteering is still active and has not disengaged after I exceeded 90 mph. However the autosteering icon did turn off misleadingly.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I think I've tried that once, and it just wouldn't enable, but it didn't put me in AP jail. Will try again soon.

OK, then that is as it should be (if accurate)...

 

[HankLloydRight]

That is 100% absolutely NOT what happens in my car. Period.

Autosteer as NOT active. No flashers. No warnings besides the single "take over immediately". No constant alarms. It simply disengages and shuts up.

I can absolutely assure you, AS was not active.

I'll take a video next time.

 

[bhzmark]

That is 100% absolutely NOT what happens in my car. Period.

Try again and pay attention to the actual steering wheel instead of the display icon steering wheel.

I was confused myself when I wrote:

f you check carefully you may see that while the "Take Over Immediately" alarm and attendant beeps are going off, it is actually still steering as best it can -- with the AP steering wheel circle still lit.

The AP steering wheel circle actually goes off -- its the TACC light that stays on. But the car continues to steer (and the TACC cruise is actually NOT keeping speed).
You can only tell for sure if it has a curve to take that happens to conveniently occur after a well-timed breach of the 90mph limit.

Oddly both the absence of the auto-steering icon and the presence of the TACC icon are both opposite of what the car is actually doing -- continuing to steer but not keeping speed on its own.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Be the facts what they may, thank you for testing this @HankLloydRight and @bhzmark. I look forward to further results.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Try again and pay attention to the steering wheel instead of the display icon.

Trust me, I did pay attention. I know when AS is enabled or not. You must think I'm some inattentive clod who doesn't know the difference. At this point, I really can't help it if you continue to dis-believe me. I can only tell you what happens in my car to the best of my ability. If that's not good enough, I'm done here.

edit: The only thing I can imagine is that AP silently disengages when you grab the wheel without the standard resistance needed to disengage it. And if that's the case, that's another huge user interface fail.

 

[bhzmark]

Trust me, I did pay attention. I know when AS is enabled or not. You must think I'm some inattentive clod who doesn't know the difference. At this point, I really can't help it if you continue to dis-believe me. I can only tell you what happens in my car to the best of my ability. If that's not good enough, I'm done here.

Wanting to know exactly what happens, and in the interests of science and humanity, [a friend of mine] took video of [his] AP1 car continuing to steer after exceeding 90 mph. Trust me. Autosteer does not disengage after exceeding 90.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Do you need to force it out of AS, or does it relinquish control silently?

 

[oktane]

How is that unsafe? You just said 'if you can't safely drive at 90mph on a highway, honestly you shouldn’t be driving". The 90mph AP2 punishment as you describe it means the driver has to take over then.

Because it encourages someone to pull over on the highway, which is several fold more dangerous.

 

[oktane]

Wanting to know exactly what happens, and in the interests of science and humanity, [a friend of mine] took video of [his] AP1 car continuing to steer after exceeding 90 mph. Trust me. Autosteer does not disengage after exceeding 90.

Trust me it does. AP2 disengages abruptly, show us a video of your car magically auto steering at 100 mph.

 

[bhzmark]

Do you need to force it out of AS, or does it relinquish control silently?

I jerk the steering wheel and then it disengages the auto-steering and turns off the alarms.

 

[dsm363]

Because it encourages someone to pull over on the highway, which is several fold more dangerous.

That's on that person then. If you blow a tire out, stopping on a shoulder is unavoidable. Nothing preventing you here of waiting until the next highway exit to pull off and re-engage it.