Want to return new Tesla

[AnxietyRanger]

That's on that person then. If you blow a tire out, stopping on a shoulder is unavoidable. Nothing preventing you here of waiting until the next highway exit to pull off and re-engage it.

Of course it is on the person, as is being responsible for steering at any speed.

But it doesn't take a psychic to see that the current policy can encourage stopping prematurely on the side of the road. Is that a better safety compromise than disengaging at 90 mph and leaving things at that... I guess that is the difference of opinions.

 

[Carl]

Wanting to know exactly what happens, and in the interests of science and humanity, [a friend of mine] took video of [his] AP1 car continuing to steer after exceeding 90 mph. Trust me. Autosteer does not disengage after exceeding 90.

Did I miss something or haven't I seen this video? I'm perfectly happy to trust you if you have seen it, but couldn't it be posted in this thread?

 

[Ugliest1]

Bolded parts are the key items

I think we're all pretty clear about the various arguments on the two sides (a) disabling is the devil! (b) disabling is angelic!

Now it's down to rehashing the same things over and over again. Perhaps just time for everyone to agree to disagree?

It's a shame we can't seem to find any common middle ground.

Half the time it seems to me the other side does not understand the other one's arguments. I guess that's in part what ignore lists do.

(as an aside, I think ignore lists are normally used in a little more specific cases than not understanding another's arguments)

Of course it is on the person, as is being responsible for steering at any speed.

But it doesn't take a psychic to see that the current policy can encourage stopping prematurely on the side of the road. Is that a better safety compromise than disengaging at 90 mph and leaving things at that... I guess that is the difference of opinions.

A-ha!

 

[DarkMatter]

Autopilot 'jail' and 'punishment' is that you have to drive the car until you have a safe place to pull over. I can see that as a good balance of being inconvenient enough to discourage the behavior without going beyond that. It's not as if it turns off AP for a day. For all we know this might have been an outcome of the NHTSA investigation. In the summary (here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF ) it says "... That system has been updated to further reinforce the need for driver engagement through a "strike out" strategy. Drivers that do not respond to visual cues in the driver monitoring system alerts may "strike out" and lose Autopilot function for the remainder of the drive cycle." It's entirely possible attempting to go over 90 MPH with Autosteer engaged is an instant strike-out in order to keep the NHTSA from asking for further restrictions to Autopilot.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I don't think that applies in this case because there are no warnings or visual cues presented before going over 90mph, only after, and by then it's too late, you're thrown in jail.

I do agree that it's somewhat of an inconvenience, but I'm protesting against the concept of AP jail without any warnings or alerts that it might happen.

 

[DarkMatter]

It's possible that there's a short list of instant strike-out behaviors. This might be the only one that enough of us have come across to know about. I could also imagine it happens if you just keep ignoring warning chirps for long enough, though I really don't want to try that.

Edit: though I suppose that would include multiple bings. I know twice now the car has instantly gone to 'hands on wheel' full alert on local roads, so it might be near one of those circumstances that results in an instant strike-out.

 

[calisnow]

Can't read 18 pages - did the OP get laughed off the forum or did he try to return his car? Did he ever tell us whether he bothered to call Tesla tech support about his nav volume bug?

 

[calisnow]

This software nanny is a completely pointless feature and serves no useful purpose.

Not true - somewhere an attorney and a liability insurance executive are sleeping better tonight.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Bolded parts are the key items


(as an aside, I think ignore lists are normally used in a little more specific cases than not understanding another's arguments)


A-ha!

I was referring to the extremeties of the differences of opinion, as you put it:

(a) disabling is the devil! (b) disabling is angelic!

Is our difference really that drastic that no closer middle ground could be found there to do the agreeing to disagree?

As for ignore lists, it is a known fact that some participants in this thread ignore members on the other side and that is one reason they keep repeating points that were countered many times.

 

[David_Cary]

You know the "ignore" feature should probably be put in jail if you are responding to a thread with over 90 posts in it. And then there could be a forced acknowledgment of all ignored posts in the prior 90 before you are allowed to post.

Very reasonable rule and would perhaps save some of the confusion.

A lot of people (non obsessed AP folks) would find it hard to fathom an argument over all this. Audi has a system that caps at 37 mph and there is 18 pages of hand wringing over 90 mph? (I do realize it must have started later than OP but I am using hyperbole).

IMO - if you are an opinionated poster who gets involved in these "discussions", the ignore feature doesn't make much sense. I've been tempted in the past to ignore someone but what if that person makes a really good point in another thread and I miss it. I am not so willing to wholesale disregard someone's posts. And the other point, is that it really helps to understand the other person's point of view even if you always disagree.

AP1 car, with a commute on a rural interstate in 3 hours. Not about to video but will see what happens. And isn't it completely plausible that cars have different responses based on version or perhaps something else unbeknownst to us?

 

[bhzmark]

the concept of AP jail without any warnings or alerts that it might happen

Fair point. but it only happens without a warning the first time it happens to you. after that, you've been warned.

 

[David_Cary]

So my friend drove above 90 and the red hands of death come out, the car slows, hazards come on. Autosteer still functional. But functional doesn't really count when the car is yelling at you, slowing down, and putting the hazards on. But it is functional so the passed out driver won't run off the road.

AP1.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Fair point. but it only happens without a warning the first time it happens to you. after that, you've been warned.

That's not the warnings I mean. I mean, before it throws you in AP jail, it should warn you once or twice "please slow down or else AP will be disengaged" -- maybe at between 85mph and 90mph a yellow warning banner pops up with the warning. Then another at 91mph. Then at 93 mph it freaks out and disengages. That's a fair warning.

 

[HankLloydRight]

So my friend drove above 90 and the red hands of death come out, the car slows, hazards come on. Autosteer still functional.

Here's the weird part -- with my AP1, I've never gotten the flashers. Do you have to turn them off manually?

 

[DarkMatter]

That's not the warnings I mean. I mean, before it throws you in AP jail, it should warn you once or twice "please slow down or else AP will be disengaged" -- maybe at between 85mph and 90mph a yellow warning banner pops up with the warning. Then another at 91mph. Then at 93 mph it freaks out and disengages. That's a fair warning.

If people are passing they will never see this warning. The one time I have triggered this autopilot disable, I was passing a truck and not looking at the instruments at all.

 

[iffatall]

A warning is a notification of an event before the event. If the car tells the driver before disengaging AP that AP is about to get disengaged, that is a warning. If it tells you right when it disengages, that is just a notification, not a warning. Let's keep this in mind when using the word 'warning'. For those like me who do not have AP, but want to keep up with what's going on, it can be very confusing when the word warning is used a little too generously.

 

[bhzmark]

A warning is a notification of an event before the event. If the car tells the driver before disengaging AP that AP is about to get disengaged, that is a warning. If it tells you right when it disengages, that is just a notification, not a warning. Let's keep this in mind when using the word 'warning'. For those like me who do not have AP, but want to keep up with what's going on, it can be very confusing when the word warning is used a little too generously.

everyone reading this thread, or reading their owners manual, has been warned.

But anyway, autosteer doesn't disengage -- it just encourages you to take over, if you are able.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

But anyway, autosteer doesn't disengage -- it just encourages you to take over, if you are able.

For some odd reason there seems to be different testing results on what actually happens, does it disengage or not. I would still be interested in hearing more experiences. I will certainly post if/when I have some of my own.

As for the warning conversation, I do think if exceeding 90 mph gave similar warning as hands on the wheel, I would find that better than the system that we currently have. It would allow for a momentary exceeding of 90 mph, feedback, and "punishment" only if you refuse to comply with the feedback. One big problem with this "punishment" is that it happens instantly.

Still, personally I'd just prefer it to disengage at 90 mph and no "punishment". I think that would be the most logical behavior and one with the least side effects. I understand some others have other opinions.

 

[HankLloydRight]

But anyway, autosteer doesn't disengage -- it just encourages you to take over, if you are able.

You should say "But anyway, autosteer doesn't disengage for me". Because it does for several other people.

 

[bhzmark]

You should say "But anyway, autosteer doesn't disengage for me". Because it does for several other people.

who other than you?

the other person who posted confirmed my experience that autosteer stayed engaged, albeit under protest. see below.

I think if you tried again and didn't touch the wheel, you would find that while the alarms went off, it continues to steer.

So my friend drove above 90 and the red hands of death come out, the car slows, hazards come on. Autosteer still functional. But functional doesn't really count when the car is yelling at you, slowing down, and putting the hazards on. But it is functional so the passed out driver won't run off the road.

AP1.