TLDR, if you need a new main service panel to get solar installed, be extra careful when dealing with PG&E to get the permission; especially if you have a gas riser/meter near the main service panel.
Yesterday was supposed to be my installation date after months of waiting for PG&E to approve my service disconnect to get a new main service panel. This was for 8 kW PV and 3 PW2 ESS.
I spent weeks working with a PG&E representative in their Diablo Service Planning office to get approval. They recognized I was swapping a 200 A rated panel with a new 200 A rated panel and I was doing this as a green initiative. Furthermore, the existing recess in my wall would be used for the change.
When the PG&E truck-technician showed up to do the disconnect, he told the site foreman that he didn't like what he saw. He said he was overruling the determination of the person I had worked weeks with and making a "overriding field assessment". He informed dispatch and informed the work crew that if the new 200 A rated main service panel were installed in the existing location, he would not reconnect service.
The problem he saw is that my existing main service panel is rated as 200 A and sits 28 inches away from my gas riser (the pipe coming out of the ground). Per PG&E's Greenbook , the minimum safe distance is 36 inches. Since 28 is less than 36 inches, putting in a new 200 A main service panel in the same spot was deemed "unsafe".
The PG&E tech didn't speak with me, or make a call back to the Diablo Office to get a confirmation. He just shut off my power, threatened the crew to not touch the panel unless they were moving it 8 inches, then left. As you can imagine, the crew couldn't proceed with any of the installation since now there was a potential $7k "lift and shift" in play. Sunrun told the crew to pack it up and leave.
Anyway, the Greenbook provides a "like for like" provision so existing homes can get a benefit so long as they're not increasing the size of the panel or adding loads. This helps people get grandfathered in and not get dinged with a big cost if they're not adding to their service.
1.16.2:
Replacing service and metering equipment with new equipment of the exact
same ampacity (e.g., 100 amps to 100 amps) and similar dimensions is
considered a “like-for-like” replacement and typically is not considered an
upgrade.
The new service and metering equipment should have similar, but
not exact, dimensions. Individual meter sockets (see Figure 6-5, “Individual
Meter Socket,” and Figure 6-6, “Combination Meter Socket Load Center,”
on Page 6-9) without an attached termination section do not qualify as
like-for-like installation and must meet the requirements of the upgraded
panel.
The new service and metering equipment must be positioned so the existing
PG&E service conductors can be reconnected properly. The new equipment
also must be positioned to ensure that clearances are not reduced to gas
facilities, water sources, or obstructions. If PG&E needs to install additional
service conductors or cables to perform the reconnect, the work and
material is the applicant’s responsibility.
A like-for-like does not have to meet the current Greenbook requirements if
the safety, existing clearances, or accessibility of the panel location is not
compromised. For example, structures (e.g., decks, remodeled buildings)
built over or around existing panels may not be energized if they do not
meet PG&E requirements for safe working conditions.
I finally got to speak with the PG&E truck technician when he came back to turn on my power. Of course he saw no work was completed and was very pleased.
He explained that he thought Sunrun was abusing the like-for-like language. He said the like-for-like was intended for a homeowner to get a damaged panel replaced, or for someone to do a simple repair to a broken meter socket. He said since I was clearly doing a "home improvement project" then the like for like would not apply. He said 36" is the minimum safe distance, and he must enforce the safety requirement. He said he was sorry another PG&E rep would accidentally make the mistake of approving like-for-like.
I highlighted the points that he argued with me. He said like for like could still be rejected and guarantees the homeowner no protection. He also said that if 36" is the only safe distance, then the only way like-for-like could work in a safe way is if the new panel were 36" away from the gas riser.
PG&E sucks.
My previous thread about trying to get PG&E approval for a "like for like" 200 A panel change:
For those in Norcal: How long does it take PG&E to approve a 200A service?
Yesterday was supposed to be my installation date after months of waiting for PG&E to approve my service disconnect to get a new main service panel. This was for 8 kW PV and 3 PW2 ESS.
I spent weeks working with a PG&E representative in their Diablo Service Planning office to get approval. They recognized I was swapping a 200 A rated panel with a new 200 A rated panel and I was doing this as a green initiative. Furthermore, the existing recess in my wall would be used for the change.
When the PG&E truck-technician showed up to do the disconnect, he told the site foreman that he didn't like what he saw. He said he was overruling the determination of the person I had worked weeks with and making a "overriding field assessment". He informed dispatch and informed the work crew that if the new 200 A rated main service panel were installed in the existing location, he would not reconnect service.
The problem he saw is that my existing main service panel is rated as 200 A and sits 28 inches away from my gas riser (the pipe coming out of the ground). Per PG&E's Greenbook , the minimum safe distance is 36 inches. Since 28 is less than 36 inches, putting in a new 200 A main service panel in the same spot was deemed "unsafe".
The PG&E tech didn't speak with me, or make a call back to the Diablo Office to get a confirmation. He just shut off my power, threatened the crew to not touch the panel unless they were moving it 8 inches, then left. As you can imagine, the crew couldn't proceed with any of the installation since now there was a potential $7k "lift and shift" in play. Sunrun told the crew to pack it up and leave.
Anyway, the Greenbook provides a "like for like" provision so existing homes can get a benefit so long as they're not increasing the size of the panel or adding loads. This helps people get grandfathered in and not get dinged with a big cost if they're not adding to their service.
1.16.2:
Replacing service and metering equipment with new equipment of the exact
same ampacity (e.g., 100 amps to 100 amps) and similar dimensions is
considered a “like-for-like” replacement and typically is not considered an
upgrade.
The new service and metering equipment should have similar, but
not exact, dimensions. Individual meter sockets (see Figure 6-5, “Individual
Meter Socket,” and Figure 6-6, “Combination Meter Socket Load Center,”
on Page 6-9) without an attached termination section do not qualify as
like-for-like installation and must meet the requirements of the upgraded
panel.
The new service and metering equipment must be positioned so the existing
PG&E service conductors can be reconnected properly. The new equipment
also must be positioned to ensure that clearances are not reduced to gas
facilities, water sources, or obstructions. If PG&E needs to install additional
service conductors or cables to perform the reconnect, the work and
material is the applicant’s responsibility.
A like-for-like does not have to meet the current Greenbook requirements if
the safety, existing clearances, or accessibility of the panel location is not
compromised. For example, structures (e.g., decks, remodeled buildings)
built over or around existing panels may not be energized if they do not
meet PG&E requirements for safe working conditions.
I finally got to speak with the PG&E truck technician when he came back to turn on my power. Of course he saw no work was completed and was very pleased.
He explained that he thought Sunrun was abusing the like-for-like language. He said the like-for-like was intended for a homeowner to get a damaged panel replaced, or for someone to do a simple repair to a broken meter socket. He said since I was clearly doing a "home improvement project" then the like for like would not apply. He said 36" is the minimum safe distance, and he must enforce the safety requirement. He said he was sorry another PG&E rep would accidentally make the mistake of approving like-for-like.
I highlighted the points that he argued with me. He said like for like could still be rejected and guarantees the homeowner no protection. He also said that if 36" is the only safe distance, then the only way like-for-like could work in a safe way is if the new panel were 36" away from the gas riser.
PG&E sucks.
My previous thread about trying to get PG&E approval for a "like for like" 200 A panel change:
For those in Norcal: How long does it take PG&E to approve a 200A service?
